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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
don't be a tithead, that wikipedia article is fine for its purposes, which is just to illustrate the existence of "sodomy laws". it's not like i'm quoting the dictionary to make a scientific point. wikipedia in fact knows a shitload more than you. it is probably more accurate than your "programme"--tv journalists have turds for brains anyway. so that last quip is a spurious argument, a red herring, a crock. let's refocus on what really matters. the immigration laws.
but first-- about the MS13, and they can be deported or jailed. but legal italian immigrants brought the cosa nostra, legal irish immigrants brough their gangs and mobs, so have recent russian immigrants, and before them the vietnamese in orange county. that's nothing new. wash your eyes and put things in perspective. there's always a percentage of criminal assholes in any population. but making matters unfriendly for ALL undocumented workers (i don't like to call them "illegal immigrants", but whatever) is throwing the baby with the bathwater, and it's a bad proposition.
the real fact is that this country depends on immigrant labor. immigration laws however have installed a monster bureaucracy which is hard to navigate, and with impossible requirements. if you are poor, and don't have a rich sponsor, there is no chance in hell you can get in legally these days. if you're a middle class mexican, you can come in no problems, take your trip, and go home. if you're poor, with a nice job, and property, guess what-- you can't come in legally. so the people who could fill the jobs that americans don't want to do (construction, restaurants, hotels, fast food, janitorial, agricultural, landscaping, chicken factories, hog farms, etc) are kept out. so guess what-- people who know the jobs are here and who need those jobs are going to break in no matter what.
the great majority of them only want a chance to survive and prosper. they work their asses off, study, and educate their children. when i was in college i met this immigrant guy from el salvador who at age 19 had 2 jobs and went to school at night. i worked in this building at the university and he and all the janitors were immigrants of dubious origins, some older ones had benefitted from an amnesty in 1985 or something, but they all worked like there was no tomorrow.
if you think this country doesn't need more people like that, and that the bulk of the potatochip-eating tv-watching compulsive-shopping drug-taking utterly spoiled "citizens" have a lot to offer to the future, you are truly deluded. take out the hard-driving immigrants and this country goes to shit in 2 decades. america has always fed on fresh blood.
same thing with the sciences by the way-- do you think a lot of american citizens want to be stuck 16 hours a day in a lab when they could be "managers" in an ad agency or some sort of corporate structure? who do you think is driving innovation and discovery in american universities? wake up and smell the reagents. without imports from asia, europe and latin america this country's geek supply would dry out in months.
what we need is legislation that allows poor but ambitious people to come in legally to work, and that makes it easy for technically qualified people to come and study and find work afterwards. the current system doesn't allow that, that's why it's fucked.
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Wikipedia is full of anomalies and after seeing some of the monster untruths on it recently I wouldnt use it to give me the time of day if I had a dozen watches to compare it with
I think we need to get a couple of things straight
I am not against legal migration, far from it
I believe, as you seem to, that it is healthy for any economy
What I am strongly against is illegal, uncontrolled migration
The overwhelming number of illegal immigrants dont make their own way into countries, they come via organised professional criminal gangs
That revenue then goes into further criminal activity, guns, drugs etc
MS-13 is one of those gangs
Yes controlled migration for people of all abilities should be made easier
But numbers still need controlling and unfortunately there is always going to be a percentage of people who, regardless of how fair or liberal the entry system is, think that they still have the right to enter a country even when refused admittance
Its tantamount to someone being able to walk in your house and take up residence and there is nothing you can do about it
Or is it your assertion that there should be a totally open door policy in the USA?
As for the companies that employ illegal immigrants, the individuals who run those companies should be fined out of their own pockets not the company
Make liability personal not corporate