[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ThePits

And the good thing is people got those laws changed

If people dont like this law get that repealled too

During the last century, the majority of migration was legal and controlled

The problem today is uncontrolled illegal immigration

Its fine if you don't mind kiddy fiddler, rapists, thieves and god knows what else slipping into your country and you dont know they are there

I watched an interesting programme on what you get as a reesult of SOME illegal immigration, MS-13

Now thats a very interesting example of what illegal immigrants can create in Los Angeles, and now in 33 states in the USA and 6 other countries

It was interesting to watch how the US government deported members on completion of sentence only to have them not only reenter illegally but to take over many of the gangs smuggling both people and drugs

Regarding wikipedia, probably isnt the best source material to quote on anything

don't be a tithead, that wikipedia article is fine for its purposes, which is just to illustrate the existence of "sodomy laws". it's not like i'm quoting the dictionary to make a scientific point. wikipedia in fact knows a shitload more than you. it is probably more accurate than your "programme"--tv journalists have turds for brains anyway. so that last quip is a spurious argument, a red herring, a crock. let's refocus on what really matters. the immigration laws.

but first-- about the MS13, and they can be deported or jailed. but legal italian immigrants brought the cosa nostra, legal irish immigrants brough their gangs and mobs, so have recent russian immigrants, and before them the vietnamese in orange county. that's nothing new. wash your eyes and put things in perspective. there's always a percentage of criminal assholes in any population. but making matters unfriendly for ALL undocumented workers (i don't like to call them "illegal immigrants", but whatever) is throwing the baby with the bathwater, and it's a bad proposition.

the real fact is that this country depends on immigrant labor. immigration laws however have installed a monster bureaucracy which is hard to navigate, and with impossible requirements. if you are poor, and don't have a rich sponsor, there is no chance in hell you can get in legally these days. if you're a middle class mexican, you can come in no problems, take your trip, and go home. if you're poor, with a nice job, and property, guess what-- you can't come in legally. so the people who could fill the jobs that americans don't want to do (construction, restaurants, hotels, fast food, janitorial, agricultural, landscaping, chicken factories, hog farms, etc) are kept out. so guess what-- people who know the jobs are here and who need those jobs are going to break in no matter what.

the great majority of them only want a chance to survive and prosper. they work their asses off, study, and educate their children. when i was in college i met this immigrant guy from el salvador who at age 19 had 2 jobs and went to school at night. i worked in this building at the university and he and all the janitors were immigrants of dubious origins, some older ones had benefitted from an amnesty in 1985 or something, but they all worked like there was no tomorrow.

if you think this country doesn't need more people like that, and that the bulk of the potatochip-eating tv-watching compulsive-shopping drug-taking utterly spoiled "citizens" have a lot to offer to the future, you are truly deluded. take out the hard-driving immigrants and this country goes to shit in 2 decades. america has always fed on fresh blood.

same thing with the sciences by the way-- do you think a lot of american citizens want to be stuck 16 hours a day in a lab when they could be "managers" in an ad agency or some sort of corporate structure? who do you think is driving innovation and discovery in american universities? wake up and smell the reagents. without imports from asia, europe and latin america this country's geek supply would dry out in months.

what we need is legislation that allows poor but ambitious people to come in legally to work, and that makes it easy for technically qualified people to come and study and find work afterwards. the current system doesn't allow that, that's why it's fucked.