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i think those bands, and to each their own, aren't really punk, they are more like punk influenced rock bands, because they are very derivative about their music who also happen to be watering down that same kind of music. they get called punk because their music is 3 chords and a fast drum beat, but they don't sound very in the spirit of other punk bands like flag, bad brains, dead kennedys or, in their league, early bad religion, descendents, adolescents or social distortion. they sort of take the sound, give it a very production and fancier gear and go with it. they are also very gimmicky, don't you think?
i have to say that i liked less than jake's first albums, and there's a couple of nofx's songs i like.
but, well, punk is very broad and different to every person, so you considering them punk is as valid as me not considering them that.
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