[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I'm unarguably grown-up, at least from a biological perspective, but I suppose the serious bit is for others to decide.

Either way, I won't deny that a lot of Leave voters were motivated by simple xenophobia, but others were against the free movement of people and its perceived impact on wages, especially in the unskilled jobs market. Others were against what they saw as the impact of certain regulations dictated by Brussels on small businesses. Others saw it as the right for Britain to create and implement its own laws. Others wanted to revive trade options with the commonwealth and other parts of the world.

For me it was mainly the fact that its inner circle appear to exist outside of any genuine election-process involving the people of Europe (and consequently not really accountable to them). Also the way that it uses austerity to exert control over its member states (most obviously in the case of Greece). Plus they keep fucking around with the shape of bananas.

yyyeah i begin to see

seems to me the eu was above all a peace project. enough with the wars. which sure a lofty goal—essential, even.

however, turning nation states into eventual members of a confederacy can’t be easy... here we have 50 states now but took a civil war and some massive brutality and the war still continues between north and south. kinda like in scotland...

now the common maket is “free” for members but not that free really as a market. meaning, i realize now—you can freely trade with each other but at bottom there”s a lot of central planning and regulation. like the usb cable—or bananas?

i have no doubt that these people have good intentions, but good intentions often have unintended consequences.

sssssso... i can see a country with a more market oriented tradition like england getting fed up in part with the central planning.

which to me was maybe the wrong play—the right play would have been to exert influence to liberalize the whole market. and thus you’d get whichever banana was the best offer on that day, and new connectors, and less bureaucracy and more innovations. maybe.

but itks hard to move a 20 or 21 nation bloc so i can see why it could get sisiphean (how do you spell that).

the austerity business was brutal. and i think prolonged the problems?

latin america was often like that in the grip of the imf. the foreign debts were orders of magnitude bigger than the economy itself.

some like argentina declared their independence, refused to pay, and ended in the shit.

others renegotiated, opened up their markets, freed up productivity, and are doing great, the debt is there but no longer a problem.

seems to me the eu did not give greece and lot of options yeah...

SO, since you mention the commonwealth, independent trade deals were not allowed, then?

i can see how it began to chafe...

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Aren't you some Irish-Egyptian born in England? Not even pure. lol

lmfao