Sonic Youth Gossip - View Single Post

!@#$%! · 01.21.2018, 05:33 PM

right im familiar with the passage. interestingly, current discussions of the potential dangers of AI have a similar bent. mainly the idea being that something that we cannot even see coming will wipe us out when we least notice.

anyway so i went and read dagon and realized i had read it before and left no impression.

and i have some comments now like what severian asked me to give, just different text.

so for this i’d like to vaguely cite nabokov from memory because i dont have the book of his lectures at cornell.

in his discussion of jekyll and hyde he talks about how good literature makes the senses tingle— it isn’t of the head and it isn’t of teh body but in between. he talks about a tingle in the back of the spine. something like that.

he then proceeds to show how precise stevenson was in his descriptions that you could actually draw a map of the house etc etc. all good.

florid language aside, which i can cope with when it works, this is what i see missing in dagon— a lack of precision that makes it hard to know exactly what the fuck one is supposed to fear.

lemme quote

Of their faces and forms I dare not speak in detail;

but but but

for the mere remembrance makes me grow faint. Grotesque beyond the imagination of a Poe or a Bulwer,

“remember when you read poe? just like that” doesn’t make my spine tingle. but poe does.

it’s kinda like when people give the elevator pitch for their shitty, derivative screenplay: “it’s like pulp fiction meets sleepless in seattle”.

they were damnably human in general outline despite webbed hands and feet, shockingly wide and flabby lips, glassy, bulging eyes, and other features less pleasant to recall.

starts going well then gets vague again. “unpleasant to recall” is more tell not show.

Curiously enough, they seemed to have been chiselled badly out of proportion with their scenic background; for one of the creatures was shewn in the act of killing a whale represented as but little larger than himself.

i actually like the irony here. the implication being that they are actually giants. which— great. he’s seeing depictions of ancient giants.

I remarked, as I say, their grotesqueness and strange size; but in a moment decided that they were merely the imaginary gods of some primitive fishing or seafaring tribe; some tribe whose last descendant had perished eras before the first ancestor of the Piltdown or Neanderthal Man was born. Awestruck at this unexpected glimpse into a past beyond the conception of the most daring anthropologist, I stood musing whilst the moon cast queer reflections on the silent channel before me.

this is fine. but it’s always “beyond” with him and i want to see the thing itself. if a skyscraper is bigger than a house i don’t want to be told it’s bigger than a house, i want to see the lines of the building disappearing into the sky. he’s musing: maybe his musings could illustrate “beyond-the-anthropology” instead of just being mentioned as “musings”.

Then suddenly I saw it. With only a slight churning to mark its rise to the surface, the thing slid into view above the dark waters. Vast, Polyphemus-like, and loathsome, it darted like a stupendous monster of nightmares to the monolith, about which it flung its gigantic scaly arms, the while it bowed its hideous head and gave vent to certain measured sounds. I think I went mad then.

so he sees a giant like the cyclops in the odissey and he’s doing what? flaps his arms and makes a belches somewhat.

that’s my problem. the imprecission. i get that he’s seeing a creature unseen before. the problem i have is that i can’t see it with him and therefore i can’t feel his fear.

i don’t mean to shit on a dead writer, he writes better than i ever will, but it’s always been hard for me to feel him and i can’t help it. the above is not any sort of damnation, just a short and sloppy phenomenology of my disappointment. i can’t see and therefore can’t feel.

i get it that at the end the monster is coming for him at the window but since it never materialized for me all i see are the words.

but curiously, now after i have explained it i can see fishface better behind the glass. and it’s a funny image in this way.

but i get the idea of terrifying discoveries now. it’s a good one.

01.21.2018, 05:33 PM	#4880
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,683	right im familiar with the passage. interestingly, current discussions of the potential dangers of AI have a similar bent. mainly the idea being that something that we cannot even see coming will wipe us out when we least notice. anyway so i went and read dagon and realized i had read it before and left no impression. and i have some comments now like what severian asked me to give, just different text. so for this i’d like to vaguely cite nabokov from memory because i dont have the book of his lectures at cornell. in his discussion of jekyll and hyde he talks about how good literature makes the senses tingle— it isn’t of the head and it isn’t of teh body but in between. he talks about a tingle in the back of the spine. something like that. he then proceeds to show how precise stevenson was in his descriptions that you could actually draw a map of the house etc etc. all good. florid language aside, which i can cope with when it works, this is what i see missing in dagon— a lack of precision that makes it hard to know exactly what the fuck one is supposed to fear. lemme quote *Of their faces and forms I dare not speak in detail;* but but but *for the mere remembrance makes me grow faint. Grotesque beyond the imagination of a Poe or a Bulwer,* “remember when you read poe? just like that” doesn’t make my spine tingle. but poe does. it’s kinda like when people give the elevator pitch for their shitty, derivative screenplay: “it’s like pulp fiction meets sleepless in seattle”. *they were damnably human in general outline despite webbed hands and feet, shockingly wide and flabby lips, glassy, bulging eyes, and other features less pleasant to recall.* starts going well then gets vague again. “unpleasant to recall” is more tell not show. Curiously enough, they seemed to have been chiselled badly out of proportion with their scenic background; for one of the creatures was shewn in the act of killing a whale represented as but little larger than himself. i actually like the irony here. the implication being that they are actually giants. which— great. he’s seeing depictions of ancient giants. I remarked, as I say, their grotesqueness and strange size; but in a moment decided that they were merely the imaginary gods of some primitive fishing or seafaring tribe; some tribe whose last descendant had perished eras before the first ancestor of the Piltdown or Neanderthal Man was born. Awestruck at this unexpected glimpse into a past beyond the conception of the most daring anthropologist, I stood musing whilst the moon cast queer reflections on the silent channel before me. this is fine. but it’s always “beyond” with him and i want to see the thing itself. if a skyscraper is bigger than a house i don’t want to be told it’s bigger than a house, i want to see the lines of the building disappearing into the sky. he’s musing: maybe his musings could illustrate “beyond-the-anthropology” instead of just being mentioned as “musings”. Then suddenly I saw it. With only a slight churning to mark its rise to the surface, the thing slid into view above the dark waters. Vast, Polyphemus-like, and loathsome, it darted like a stupendous monster of nightmares to the monolith, about which it flung its gigantic scaly arms, the while it bowed its hideous head and gave vent to certain measured sounds. I think I went mad then. so he sees a giant like the cyclops in the odissey and he’s doing what? flaps his arms and makes a belches somewhat. that’s my problem. the imprecission. i get that he’s seeing a creature unseen before. the problem i have is that i can’t see it with him and therefore i can’t feel his fear. i don’t mean to shit on a dead writer, he writes better than i ever will, but it’s always been hard for me to feel him and i can’t help it. the above is not any sort of damnation, just a short and sloppy phenomenology of my disappointment. i can’t see and therefore can’t feel. i get it that at the end the monster is coming for him at the window but since it never materialized for me all i see are the words. but curiously, now after i have explained it i can see fishface better behind the glass. and it’s a funny image in this way. but i get the idea of terrifying discoveries now. it’s a good one.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|