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Originally Posted by dead_battery

i dont think that meaning can be found. i think there literally is none. i think that even comfort and safety are but a feeble attempt to pacify basic terror and anxiety.

i get what you're saying - and i share that attitude too - you dont wake up and think "man i hope my house is still here". you want to take that as a given. what you daydream of is success, but i think sane dreams of success do not interfere with safety and comfort.

i mean, i think the human conditions terrible.people who skydive or take those kind of risks - im not condemning it or trying to stop it. i just think you need to maximize intelligence and security before you can die in any kind of a worthwhile way.

i think we're all collectively hitting into walls of exhaustion and collapse because we have this kind of dim promethean attitude that is encouraged on us - were instead of knowing anything about the world we're told to focus on this kind of magical thinking where some part of our eternal creative essence is gonna triumph against the odds of the zero sum economic game and banish all the strangeness, confusion, death, nothingness and entropy. i'm repeating here things that other people are coming up with in theory at the moment.

i should change my idea of security and safety. what i mean by this is not "niceness" or hippies holding hands. im talking about real fucking technological shit. i want a motherfucking fusion reactor giving me free energy so the electricity companies stop raping me. i want clean water and air. i want advanced consumerism - i want to be able to grow my own food and i want all the trends in medicine and science that are empowering the individual, particularly low income ones or no income ones like me - to increase. i want MOTHERFUCKERS TO KNOW - all this shit is possible. stop believing in these false metaphysics. believe in THINGS, not just your self.

i want everyone to have leisure time instead of exhausting themselves to stack shelves of more fucking junk food.

i want people to finally wake up the technology we ALREADY HAVE - most of our work can be done by machines. we could have a new era of massively increased free time and empowered individuals able to tend to their own energy and food and to a certain extent health needs with even greater independence from the state/market. this is not an anti capitalist philosophy - its more about getting people to understand we need to integrate renewable resources. then, ON TOP OF THAT, once everyones basic living needs can be easily met - you can have the greatest most experimental and scientifically advanced capitalist free market system humanity has ever known. but motherfuckers need to stop having to spend their lives trying to out work machines being unable to take care of their rent/food/energy bills. im sick of my generation being sacrificed and having our futures and potential squandered for this fucking INEFFICIENCY!

i believe today, we peasants are in the situation as we were in the middle ages. back then the church told us we couldnt read and we werent allowed to learn cos only they could handle the bible and only they could manage our interests. motherfuckers rebelled and we taught ourselves some dang fine good english and empowered ourselves, and it was to the benefit of all. the same situation applies today - only with science and technology. the average person needs to become literate in scientific techniques and understand the means for their own greater independent survival, freeing themselves from economic brutality and emiseration as part of the precarious work force!

we dont need revolts to attain this kind of future. we need an understanding that an individuals best interest lie not SIMPLY in collaborating with the market system or whatever systems exists for them, but having an understanding of their body and technology that allows them to extricate themselves from the types of enslavement so common to those of us who dont start off with daddys trust fund and nepotism network.

hey it's hard to reply to everything you're saying here even though it's a holiday weekend (or maybe because of it), but the first thing that jumps at me is that you're saying that THERE IS NO MEANING.

and it strikes me that the problem is that you're asking is for some sort of cosmic shit to answer you. "the meaning of it all" or monty python's "the meaning of life".

and of course the meaning is "nothing" or "46" or whatever teh fuck.

because that's the wrong question.

you're not the whole of it all so you cannot ask "what is the meaning of the universe and everything in it" or "what is the meaning of this single thing/event to the whole universe". it's an absurd question, with an absurd answer.

but you can ask simply: what does this mean TO ME?

that's the only thing you can ask and it's the only thing you can answer too.

seriously, who gives a splatterd turd about THE WHOLE FUCKING COSMOS. it makes no sense.

what makes sense is:

what is the meaning of this TO ME?
what is the value of this TO ME?

that's a lot easier to answer and it's meaningful within its context. if you then say "this means X to me but i am nothing to the whole cosmos" then you're pissing away your anwser.

forget about the fucking absolutes-- you're not the whole of it and it doesn't matter and it's unanswerable/pointless/etc anyway.

there is some horrible-ass song from the 60s that the hippies like-- it's some lamo singing "duuuuust in the wiiiiiiid... all we are is duuust in the wiiind...." i've always hated that fucked song not just because it's horrible in every way (whiny bastard singing crybaby music) but because he overgeneralizes. "all we are is..." -- *speak for yourself, motherfucker*.

of course it's all christian bullshit-- people who claim to know "god" or that "god" will reveal shit to them.

seriously. trying to speak for "god" or figure out his fictional mind always ends up in either nihilism or delusion or both.

in other words, you have no god any more, but his shadow is still pestering the fuck out of you and trying to kill you in your sleep. get out from under it.