[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

lets do this!



yeah. and all those contributions are what led to science, and are now a part of history. they have nothing more to teach us. newton also spent most of his time in more secular pursuits (fucking alchemy).

No its not just history, it is part of our collective understanding of today. Without the discoveries and insights of the past, not only would we not have the benefit of that wisdom today, we very well may have went extinct and therefore NOT EVEN EXIST TODAY, PERIOD.

im giving your religion credit, but only in the way that a parasite burrowing through the brain of a host gives the host credit.

So again, what would we do without all those mechanical, scientific, and medicinal discoveries of the ancients who were following religious pursuits? You may not agree with the motivations of those engineers who built the Cathedrals of Europe, but where would modern construction have evolved without them?

sure it was fun but now i've sucked up your brain and am some sort of insect drone creature with psychic internet antenna flying the globe and remotely hacking the financial markets. i dont really care about that old dead person i once used up. going back to them would be a waste of time.

That is truly foolish, and one day you will learn the wisdom of relying on the past rather than dismissing it as foregone.

This is only a problem if you believe in the self. Your point is that the self is omnipotent and thus we can endlessly avoid facing what we dont want to face because you can accuse the other of not knowing what your self REALLY is and thus you can never be pinned down.

The Self is all you have really, everything else is ephemeral.

And of course, that's the whole point of the culture. Men have selves and do the naming of others, and thus the pretense is that men create all these things. But its either men or the violent or the briefly powerful that endlessly change the definitions. I'm sick of this stupid pretense.

Then why are so reliant on the modern religion of science, which is nothing more than as you've said, men having selves and naming of others (i.e. classification)?

Also, there is nothing in me that ever could 'get out' of the trap of this mind. That's more christianity right there if you think there is. Please show me where in the brain the self is located? You're just an ape standing there pointing at it howling your noise and i'm supposed to respect it or else. I'm supposed to believe it exists. lol

Haha, that is cute, but in the core and essence of your being, you KNOW that is simply not true, and if it is, what a sad, empty, and meaningless existence it must be

You think the natural is good cos like, god made it and its simple and feels good. The artificial is bad cos we made it and its all industrial and it must be our fault for doing that that the world is tainted with death and suffering.

Didn't say that. Just pointed out that science can be as dangerous when reckless as anything else. Its not divine, its as human as anything else, and humans are as inherently dangerous as we are fragile.

You and half the fucking culture still believes in this idea but it's not going to remain credible for much longer. Try regressing and seeing how nature or god takes care of you.

Meh.

Try not artificially regulating the earths co2 levels and see what happens. Try putting your faith in the inherent goodness of the world.

C02 levels are only rising above naturally sustainable levels because of the gross abuses of human technology.

Also, science has already done more than religion ever will.

Nope. Science today is entirely built upon the previous scientific discoveries of more religious minded people. Again, your dichotomy is false, and not supported by many functioning, laboratory scientists today who even the modern world spend their 9-to-5 in the lab, and then their Sundays sincerely behind a pew

More Americans would know this is they didn't have to face going broke to pay medical bills.

Isn't it interesting how the Catholic Church is the largest provider or charitable healthcare in America and the world meanwhile all those scientists in lab coats at the pharmaceutical labs only think about their wallets and new cars in the drive way patiently watching innocent humans die of preventable diseases whereas the conscience of people of Faith is moved to help save lives and put their money where their mouth is to boot

the photons coming from the objects themselves are what is experienced. they are literally inside the eyes.

Maybe, maybe not. We can easily chemically manipulate the brain to perceive things which do not exist, so how can we always be so sure that we we perceive in ordinary circumstances actually does exist, and is not rather the product of our minds as it is with visions, dreams, and hallucinations? How exactly can we know the difference when consciousness and experience are entirely subjective?

Whereas religion is nothing BUT one big human interpretation where EVERYTHING is lost in translation.

Not any more or less than science, because religion has a unique advantage, it has 250,000 years of studying the depths of the human mind, consciousness, and experience to build upon. Religion knows the human mind and heart in an existential way which science is barely starting to catch up with. It would be silly to dismiss the collective wisdom of our previous several hundred generations? Only a fool pretends the past isn't important, and any old man will laugh in your face to remind you of this, and that is just over a single life-time, let alone the collective wisdom of tens of thousands of people.

And I'd rather question your pretense to know reality.

I don't pretend to know reality, YOU DO THOUGH

You are trying to hold onto creationism by saying that reality is just a big blur and an incomprehensible mess until we interpret it. And by we you have specifically you and presumably your god or gods wherever they are.

Way to battle a Straw Man there!

When exactly did I say that? You infer too much. To have an existentialist conversation with me, you need to reject any of your bigoted, biased, or prejudiced preconceived notions of what you think I think, and instead address what I actually said

I'm saying that reality is just a big blur period and our interpretations dont mean shit. Literally they are worthless. But science is something that we can do,

Can't you see the inherent contradiction in what you just said? Science is a human art, using human created conceptions and measurements which indeed often prove false, inaccurate, and biased. Science changes and evolves. What was a so-called fact becomes fiction and previous fiction becomes the facts of the future. I rather accept reality as a big blur and try my best not to read too much between any particular lines. The basic premise of my Faith is to say (a) I know nothing but what is temporarily revealed, and (b) such revelations are by definition fleeting, changing, evolving, as is science.