[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

its not a human creation. its not a CREATION.

SCIENCE DOES NOT DESCRIBE OR EXPLAIN NATURE.. BUT NATURE AS EXPOSED TO OUR METHOD OF QUESTIONING.

Werner Heisenberg

thats the one concept that i am in eternal war against (and encounter everywhere). all i want is for people to just see the obvious connection with the fact they live in a post christian culture and that they think creation is so great. their are implicit assumptions hidden in our valorization of this concept, in the arts, in politics, in economics. my gamble is that by learning to recognize all the excess christianity smuggled into our post christian culture we can unclog some of the blockages we have.

But you're quite literally being foolish so as to discredit or dismiss the significant impact which Christian, Islam, Brahmanism, and Buddhism actually had on human civilization and advancements in language, science, mathematics, engineering, and medicine. By the way, you did realize that Sir Isaac Newton INVENTED modern calculus but not for what you may have been thinking. Newton was obsessed with gamatria, and he designed calculus in an attempt to "decode" the Bible to predict the Apocalypse (he went to the grave insisting that his algorithms predicted the end of the world in 2060)..

i just think this is another machinic process.

BUT CONSIDERING YOU ARE FOREVER TRAPPED IN YOUR OWN MIND, HOW CAN YOU KNOW WITH CERTAINTY THAT IT REALLY IS JUST ANOTHER MECHANIC PROCESS?

im interested in what you are doing but science is going to be able to help me get there quicker

Yet with all the cancer causing chemicals released and the menacing threat of nuclear annihilation, how can you be so smug as to rely on science, when it has proven as dangerous as any other human art?

don't you want to know thats going on in your brain when you are in these trance like states, or states of prayer or whatever they are? don't you want to know what the shortcuts to get there are?

There are no shortcuts. Further, how can you be so sure that the chemicals in the brain cause what you observe or experience, and that its not completely the other way around? How can you know that the experiences don't cause the chemicals?
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anyway. science is not a human creation because it is capable of replicating reality in a way that results unclouded by the biases of our minds and desires are broken.

Bullshit. Science is filled with human conceptions, human measurements, human fabrications. All of the lovely "science" is merely a human art of interpreting reality, but as with all matters of interpretation, how can we always be so certain that something isn't lost in translations?

but you have to start from that assumption, not from jesus' hugs. we did that for centuries and centuries and nothing new is going to come out of it.

Considering how many great scientists were active, worshiping Christians how can you be damned sure that these are in natural conflict or dichotomy? From Newton, to Mendel, all the way up to Francis Collins, many impacting scientists were also men of renowned faith. Did you know Newton published more commentaries on Scripture than he did on science? Or that Mendel celebrated Mass as a priest? Or that Francis Collins is an active church goer? Yet these men are also foundation pioneers and corner stones of post-modern science. Hmmm.. Seems your supposed scientific dichotomy is non-existent than