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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
it's not an either/or thing, they operate at different levels
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Yes it is, one level is in reality, and the other operates at the realm of our collective political imagination. Voting is the symptom of the disconnect between the two.
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so they don't vote in NGOs, civic metings, churches, conservation groups, etc? how do these groups make decisions?
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They do indeed, perhaps you missed my point. Its not exactly democratic principles that I am challenging, its the current national level political machinery operating in the United States. I am essentially promoting the "boycott" vote, and not giving into the fear-mongering of either party of "support me or its you're fault."
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even if you are only concerned with local politics, the political parties can create either a friendly or hostile environment for all of the local institutions you mentioned above. they can provide funding or withdraw it.
do you think the environment in halfway houses or prison programs change when you have shit like supermax prisons? do you think addicts should be lumped with violent criminals or sent to drug courts? and how does that affect the impacted communities?
Do you think the work of environmental groups is affected when pollution is encouraged by "pro-business" administrations?
Don't you realize that many of these people and groups are actually the "base" of these bigger parties?
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You are right, but simply voting for or participating with the campaign of one political party or another is not going to dictate that. Rather, if you work on the street, grass-roots level in our communities you will indeed be interacting daily with the government. The difference is you won't necessarily be in bed with the parties, and further, you will be operating more at an equal playing field as equals rather than mutual sycophants.
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Seriously man, there is a bigger picture at the national and international level and that can't fit our dreams 100%, but sometimes you have to take 60/40 over 40/60, yeah?
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Its not about our fucking dreams, its about the nightmare which is many people's reality. If our political machinery is the base and support of police brutality, in systemic economic equality, of structural racism, of the death, murder and insane mayhem of war in several countries simultaneously while funding several others.. Is that really what you want to vote for and support? It is much more effective to work directly with the communities and organizations which operate on the ground.
I am sorry it I am a bit more disillusioned than y'all, but inevitably we all see the Light like Paul did and get knocked of the fanciful high-hopes high horse of patriotic wishful thinking. EVERY country, EVERY nation, EVERY community has to inevitably deal with the negatives they reap along side the positives. I am not pretending these are not our mutual realities, I would argue all the more that our current political machinery IS that problem particularly because it scape-goats the blame which is its own. If you want to support Mr. Obama that is fine, but please ask him why he keeps killing people in Yemen and Pakistan and Somalia and Mexico and Los Angeles? Is that what we voted for? You can ask Mitt the same thing
