[Tokolosh]

Originally Posted by bytheriver

Ok I didnt read much past page four but Im fairly familiar with both sides of this interminable debate, i just wanted to reply to a couple of the earlier statements about choosing sides etc, as well as the whole left right thing. I just think its about time that sort of thing stops, your enemies enemy is not your friend, ideologically Im pretty left but cant support any leftist parties because of all the bloody Socialists, these people refuse to accept the USSR as a bad entity because it was the enemy of the US, they gloss over Cambodia, China, North Korea etc just cause they represent an alternative. And they still call each other Comrade in meetings which makes them impossible to take seriously. Anyway factionalism and choosing sides is the key ingredient in conflict, whats needed is third party moderators and neutral influences to calm shit down, like international institutions or non politically alligned organisations, or popular movements of the people.
In terms of this situation people always immediately choose sides and demonise the other, no attempt at understanding is made. Israel supporters dont recognise the poverty, occupation, loss of land and refugee crisis as legitimate grievances. Supporters of Palestinians/Arabs refuse to recognise Israels security concerns, or the historic foundations for their sensitivity. Both sides claim to be right. Dogmatic refusal to understand or emphathise with the enemy gets people nowhere.

I personally think in this case the onus is on Israel to withdraw to 1967 borders, I think all their peace deals etc are token gestures without that being done. But that doesnt make them a target for civilian attacks, suicide bombings and rocket attacks on population centres arent justified by that. Likewise responses that do the same. And round and round.

Agreed.