[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by hevusa

The proof? We aren't eating our food out of tubes. That is the proof. The tides of the ocean. Michael "Air" Jordan.

the tides are theoretical evidence of planetary motion and suggest gravitation but is not necessarily a smoking gun. The more convincing evidence lie in some of the experiments in these new, monstrous colliders where all kinds of subatomic evidence is coming to light. But then again, even that is not really evidence, it is subjective to the technology, to the understanding of the observer, of the circumstances, etc etc. It is hardly proof, just as there isn't any objective proof of God(s).
My point entirely through this and other similar discussion is that existentially, there is no proof of anything, and further it is bad science to get caught up religiously about particular current theories because such theories will always and inevitably get replaced and refuted with new theories...

Explanations of phenomena which we experience and observe today with what we call gravitation are just theoretical, with convincing evidence for sure, but none-the-less almost purely theoretical.. Good science is never sure of it self, because then it will miss the next thing..

We are 100% on the same page here. We can't prove any of this is real, including you or I

above it all, existentially, nothing is provable, so I don't see what you are arguing about? I never attempted to prove God(s), rather to discuss God(s) as was asked in the thread topic, and yet you are bashing around trying to disprove everything, and hardly succeeding at that! Lets stick with what we agree on, good music and that reality as we know it does not exist, so why get caught up in all the bullshit?

. That doesn't mean one should disconnect rationale to believe in a deity, especially those found from scripts of ancient civilizations. That would be mind blowingly' ridiculous, cause conflicts between groups of people, injustice to minorities, and create illogical laws. Don't ya think??

Again, that is your assumption that it is a disconnection to believe or experience a deity, because much like theories of gravitation we were discussing, religion and deity are merely theories, some complex, to describe observed experiences in people's lives and in our reality at several levels. Religious people, much like scientists, are content with subjective or suggestive evidence and explanations rather then hard-line, obvious proof, because there are not really many examples of hard-line proof of anything! I mean, sure it sounds nice to explain the snow and static and feedback on my analog TV as coming from background radiation from the big bang and therefore evidence of the big bang, but come off it, is that really any kind of proof? Who are we kidding here!

The conflicts you speak of have far more factors then just religion by the way, you should be careful so simplify such complicated socio-political matters. Was the Protestant Reformation about Luther? No, it was about wealthy Dutch, German and English royalty and nobility breaking away from the authority, politically and economically of the Vatican and the Roman clergy who were vast land owners, taxmen and investors. Was the Crusades about religious wars? Hardly, thats why in the 3rd Crusade they skipped Jerusalem entirely and sacked their political and economic arch rival the Byzantines? Today, the jihadists attack Westerners over religion? Or is it geopolitics of Western military expansion, proxy wars and greed exploitation?

haha. Of course I am still here. This is the most fascinating subject on earth in my opinion. I'm glad you are indulging me.
Why in the world would a God have to operate under the laws of the universe??? This makes no sense. I.

God(s) is a Mystery, its better not to try to explain. And further, it is the very nature of the concept of God(s) entirely NOT to make any sense, that is precisely the point of things considered supernatural.

I'm glad we can come to a more amicable agreement here, but please, consider not insulting me or my family in the future, if we were having this same discussion in a bar or a library we may have had to exchange blows over a few of your words, friends or not! maximum respect to you my brother, but speak the real! stay positive!