Israel vs the rest of the middle east
 

Israel has moved into Lebanon and the violence is escalating.
This poll is about who's wrong... or should they all reach an agreement and live as peaceful neighbours?
What can be done to resolve the conflict?

Oh fuck, this is a tough and complicated one. From my uninformed standpoint they seem to be as bad as each other, but Israel does seem to have a knack of fighting fire with inferno.

Although their living together as peaceful neighbours would obviously be the desirable situation, I don't see how it's ever going to happen as long as outside forces keep effectively bankrolling the conflict.

more like they should all go fuck themselves rather than try to coexist peacefully. i'm sick of their shit. it's a more attainable goal anyway.

The situation is complicated to say the least. Israel does often instigate the other peoples of the area. They want war. The Israeli's can be just as pig-headed and racist as the rest of the people of the Middle East. It's no one countries fault concerning the areas instability. All the countries in that area hate each other, but they all gang up on Israel. I really don't know why people are fighting over a really crummy peice of land anyway. It's a fucking desert! I know it's holy to so many of the people, but come on!!!! Why can't they all just share that pile of shit they call home? That whole situation in the Middle East is one giant knot that unfortunately will never ever be resolved. They'll all continue to kill and maim each other until they kill every last person there. And then America can use that land to raise cheap cattle and hemp.

Make love (to yourself), not war.

Has a nice ring to it...

I'm Yasser Arafat's successor.

*coughs and restrains himself from saying anything offensive*

I agree, I am sick of their shit. They should work out a solution, however bad it is for both.

Think only of the economics, how much is this stupid thing costing everybody every year? And America is paying for Israel I guess.

Brilliant! ;)

I think the idea of attacking a nation because some militants kidnapped one soldier, in which you end up killing 45 enemy soldiers and 40 civilians (as of yesterday morning), and thn claiminhg that the attacke dnation, when it atacks back and takes two of your soldiers prisoner, is an act of war is fucking ridiculous. Israel has attacke dan ddestroyed the airport (caus only "terrorists" fly right?) and attacked and destroyed the only power plant in lebanon (becaue only "terorists" use electricity right?) and it makes me sick. this whole bullshit about the kidnapped soldier is a red herring. this attack was planned for months and maybe years. this is a full scale invasio of gaza and the violence will soon escalate. gasoline will rise to $100 a barell or more, and we wil witness the start of world war II, as dictated and planned by the mambers of the current administration and their lackeys in Israel, and Britain and wherever else. The end is nigh people. The ardent zionist fundamentalist christians want israel to exist solely for the purpose of starting what they consider armageddon. those are the peiople that are running the US now. Have fun.

tomorrow we're all dead.

I wasn't fully aware of what this was about until I saw the news this morning and I want to change my vote. Israel is a cunt

I know its more complicated but as far as I can tell if everybody there put a little less emphasis on their religeon, and paid a little less attention to everybody elses, then theirs no reason the two societies couldnt coexist peacefully.

Anyway UN international intervention kicked this whole thing off and its the only way it'll get sorted.

Peace, for fuck sake cant we all just get along!

well then they wouldnt have everyone under their control now would they. or get those big fat cheques from the US.

It would seem that most governments and people of authority actually thrive on paranoia now, instead of letting it threaten them, so all of that which we see or read or hear about in the media may just be one big, lumpy tumour of an excuse for all these governments and points of authority and politicians to get together and have one big, mass blood orgy. Of course, either way, it won't really, actually matter to anyone until it affects them directly, as proven by 9/11. And even then, it won't even affect 100% of the people, as evidenced by the aftermath of 9/11.

the israeli government is out of control in general. the majority of israeli citizens have plenty of contempt for the actions of their government as they know that such actions do nothing but further endanger their lives.

america's decision to start a war with afghanistan because a terrorist organization has bases there has opened up a nasty can of worms. now any nation can use that conflict as an example of how terrorism is supposed to be combatted.

while the rest of the world can come out strongly against the disproportionate actions of the israeli government and the IDF, america (not that they'd say anything anyway, for some ludicrous reason...) can't say anything without looking entirely hypocritical.

why america ever supported the possibility for a country the size of new jersey to have the fourth largest army in the world as well as nuclear arms is a mystery to me. i'd love to see how much more willing to be a partner in peace israel would be if they had a military the size of lebanon or syria...

Japan wants to "pre-emptively" strike at North Korea.

India wants to do the same to Kashmir

The Israilies are doing the same right now.

Condaleeza Rice and Preznit Bush have both said they are preparing the US military for the occassion when Fidel Castro dies, so they can invade ( my word, they say "Go there") and try to keep Fidel's sons from continuing communist rule in Cuba.

It is all a crock of shit. a big steamy crock of shit, left on all day to get soft and tender.

and yet we do not invade Darfur, we do not invade Sierra Leone, we do nothing to help the people of Nigeria, we do nothing to help the violent corruption in south america. we actually facilitate the corruption in south america.

the Russians, our new "friends" have in the past year taken governtment control (i.e. totalitarian control) of all the broadcasting, newspapers and public media, they have taken al the Russian energy companies (opil and gas) out of private hands by force and coercion and put them under government control. Right back to a totalitarian state. Are we doing anything about that?


fun fun fun.

How would any other nation react to continious attacks on it`s soil by militant groups from a neighbouring country, while the government of this country does nothing to stop it?

How would any other nation react to an attack carried out on their soil to kidnap their soldiers by those militants?

militant groups are militant groups. the attacks that Israel is actively pursuing right now are against the actual infrascturcture of the "nation", not attacks on the militants that they seek. They are destroying bridges, power stations, schools. airports, infrasrtucture, things that are used by the masses of people not byt the assholes firing rockets into israel. civilians are dying, regular people. they commit the exact same acts of murder as the people that attack and murder Israelites. eye for an eye huh?

Thou shalt not kill

and damn, soldiers exist for two purposes and two purposes only. to KILL the enemy and die trying or to DIE defending atatcks from an enemy.

preznit bush dodged military service rather than give the "ultimate sacrifice" as he so likes to put it. so did Clinton. John Kerry, the only person running for president in the last 10 years that has actual military service, was laughed at for his anti war stance. now, who is better to tell you that war sucks? a soldier that has seen it and killed and seen his friends die trying to kill.

yet we laughed at hima nd elected a puppet of fat fucks.

Even though the rest of the middle east already preemptively attacked Israel, and Israel won, I think they should live together peacefully. The governments and militaries suck, but that's no reason to take it out on any of the citizens.

Israeli gunships hit fuel tank at Beirut airport

• Israel strikes Beirut airport, hitting fuel tank
• IDF: Rockets hit Haifa; Hezbollah denies attack
• Israeli ambassador: Haifa attack "major escalation"
• Hezbollah launches scores of rockets into Israel
• Israel, Lebanon officials say violence amounts to "acts of war"
• Al-Arabiya: Israeli leaflets warn to stay away from Hezbollah centers

Can`t we let US politics out of this and stick to the debate over the Israeli-Lebanse/Palestine conflict?

I'm utterly appaled about what you have just posted.But since this is not actual political militance but some vaguely and possibly simplistic political stance and music forum,i suppose you are totally right.Some people just revel in the total irrelevance of their own statements.Others fight the war with both mind and body.I know who i'd take position with.

Batiasn, it is all relevant. the people in power i the US as of this second are firm believers in the armageddon theory of fundamentalist christians. the truly believe that the world is coming to and end and SOON and that it will all be precipitated by Israel, which is why they ahve such a vested interest in maintaining the existance of Israel. according to the new testament, the way these fundamentalists read revelations, they believe that the Jews have to have a state before the armagedon can begin. The y have had a state now for over 50 years. these people are INSANE.
they have no need to better tomorrow because in their hearts and minds tomorrow will never come. they want their goodies NOW

it is highly relevant to the ongoing conflict in israel/Gaza/Lebanon.

Incidentally has anyone on here been an actually waged anti-capitalism party member?

Let's not do the 'whatever chabib posts is gold' sort of arselicking thing there.It just kills off more on the ball discussion.It goes nowhere round these parts.

I've been involved in several leftist groups, some more militant (ie violent idiots) than others. Never waged, just a lot of angry rhetoric. I've been stuck in an ideological hinterland as a result, and by consequence, I generally refuse to open the can of worms marked 'Isreal', especially as I know plenty of people who give entirely different renditions of the conflict thanks to their direct experience on kibbitz and in the Isreali army.

I`m leaning to the left and anti-capitalism, though not active in any groups (yet).
I`m also very critical of/opposed to many positions that are considered "left".

I think a leftist group that I can relate to should be consent to this:
http://www.eustonmanifesto.org/

For every person who bashes capitalism, I will get Leeds Mattresses to match any advertised price, or my mattress is free. Jerks.

The left or right political orientations are something someone out there is trying to prove very,very misleading.

Simplified statement.Spotted.

Well, not sure if I understand you correctly..

I don`t really care much about the label "left" or "right", I rather try to judge a position by what it`s actual about, not what political spectrum it is attributed to.

The whole left/right dichtomy is pretty messed up anyways.
Political groups/position within the left are sometimes totally oppositional to each other. Same goes for parties of the so-called center or right, I guess.

I`ve been called "left-wing radical" by "conservative" folks as I`ve been called neocon by "leftwing" folks, as I`m very opposed to the anti-imperialist left (and right.. anti-imperialsm is very alive in neo nazi groups)... stupid "identy" clashes..

Live together peacefully....it's the 21st Century for fucks sake. Fuck the bullshit.

porkmarrass

I was talking to bastian about my previous statements re: preznit Bush and american politics, not referring to chabib or you. so chills man.

I know there's an elton john record somewhere you have not bought yet!

Hezbullah is a member of the governing coalition of Lebanon. Which is why Israel is holding Lebanon responsible for the actions of Hezbullah and is considering Hezbullah's actions as an act of war. Acting as a state within a state isn't going to give Hezbullah any cover when it comes to Israeli retaliation. And the Lebanese as a whole will suffer the consequences of allowing Hezbullah to behave as if it were a state within a state.

But the real power pulling the strings here is Iran which controls Hezbullah (Interesting to note that Syria and Iran recently signed defence treaty). And if those 2 captured soldiers are ever transfered to Iran, well your guess is as good as mine.

I agree with Russia and France that Israel's reaction seems a bit over the top relative to what intiated everything in this latest round of violence, while at the same time can understand their anger in saying enough and want to bulldoze hezbollah and hamas. its crazy. we're all caught up in the middle of right wing, take humanity backwards, brutal wars.

Like people didn't get there before you did.

Shame.

If you're too scared to pick a side, you're obviously a very weak and indecisive person. People of worthwhile opinions group themselves with other people of similar or not-so-similar-but-somehow-linked opinions. That's how real men roll. And politically empowered women.