America, you're fucked up.
 

and it's people like my family, friends, and i's fault
tradition is dead, open your fucking eyes
people are dying because of our ignorance
and not just in foreign countries, but on our own soil too
thousands (maybe millions) of americans go unheard and uncared for
why would anyone think the war in iraq was a good idea???

what's wrong with you?

The title of this thread has resonated in my head all day. It's just so true and awesome that someone from America has the guts to say it.

If you want some extensive reading, feel free to ask.

cypto is no longer a red state color guard? :eek:

I sense a great disturbance in the force....

Talk about old news.

I'm not sure it was a good idea, but I also can't say it wasn't. Nobody, except people in possession of crystal balls or psychic powers, will really know for several years. History will eventually tell us if more good or more bad came from this.

But consider this:

1. Saddam Hussein used force to invade Kuwait, thus leading to the first gulf war.

2. In the wake of the first gulf war, the UN (not the US) imposed sanctions on Iraq, which included submitting to weapons inspections.

3. For years, Iraq refused to comply with these sanctions while making an effort to convince the world it had weapons of mass destruction. This is the same country that had committed acts of genocide and torture.

If we had allowed the status quo to remain in the Middle East, then what would have happened? (I have no idea.) Aren't we responsible for the result of our inactions? To at least a certain extent, I believe we are.

This is a long term problem with no simple solution. My belief is that the middle east needs to become prosperous. At least some of this religious fanaticism would disappear if these people had jobs and lived comfortably. Maybe democracy can be the first step towards making that happen.

The UN weapons inspectors constantly complained they were not given enough time and were making progress over inspections

My country sent us to war on the basis of lies

"missiles capable of being deployed in 45 minutes that presented a threat to the United Kingdom"

Iraq didnt even have any scuds left and it was well documented they did not have ICBM's, the type of missile necessary to reach the UK from Iraq

Even the very legality over the second invasion of Iraq is hotly contested

This was a war about oil, more money for Bush and his oil funded party and cronies

To our eternal shame we went along with the lies like a little lapdog

The only thing left is to make sure lying scheming politicians are never allowed to do this again

That may have been true by the time they were finally allowed in, but how many years did it take to get to that point? 8? 10?

I fault George Bush for the way he got us into the war. He should not have based it on evidence of WMD's. By the time we invaded Iraq, Saddam Hussein had been on "parole" for previous crimes and the burden was on him to report to his "parole officers," the UN inspectors. He hadn't reported to them for years, so proof of WMD's (real or fabricated) was irrelevant.

I guess Bush felt the need to play politics and cite WMD evidence to gain support for the war. I think he's a terrible leader, but that has little to do with whether this war will ultimately result in more good or bad.

The weapons inspectors were allowed in on numerous occasions and frequently kicked out as well when US inspectors started using weapons inspections as a cheap way of gathering intelligence on non WMD matters

In fact the inspections prior to the second gulf war indicated that Iraq was complying with WMD disposal

Hussein could never openly admit he had no way to defend his country for fear of a second war with Iran which he would certainly have lost

Further, didnt it strike anyone as odd in the first gulf war that despite satellites, spies and dedicated special forces teams covertly inserted into Iraq, that noone found a single scud missile or launcher?

A briefing held just before the second invasion of Iraq by a Lieutenant Colonel to the officers and senior NCO's of a British infantry Battalion was started with the words "Forget about weapons of mass destruction, you are just about to take part in the biggest theft in the world. We are going to steal an oil field"

That said it all

I forgot one point

Iraqs constant breaches of UN resolutions have always been cited as justification for the second invasion

Colin Powell stated "Military action was justified by Iraq's violation of 12 years of U.N. resolutions,"

Why then hasn't the USA been so keen to invade Israel who has been in breach of resolutions going back to the League of Nations days in the 1950's as well as numerous UN resolutions going back dozens of years!

Why arent UN inspectors sent in to inspect Israels now well documented stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons?

Oh silly me, no oil..........

it's a shame.
but you're one of the other millions of Americans that actually realize this malady.
athough we don't outweigh the clueless, it counts for something.

i'm speaking of the Americans that agree with Europeans. We wouldn't have to outweigh you.

figured out I went the wrong route, so I got with a sick ass crew and went all out.

there is no fucking way in hell that this thread wasn't simply created to stir up Bees!

seriously. who has this particular epiphany RIGHT NOW.

shit's been wrong for a long time, and it's not just the US.

things may indeed be under more scrupulous control elsewhere, but today's problems are going to seem like Happy Days compared to what may come for the entire planet.

personally, I'm jumping ship. gawd told me to build an Ark.

http://www.okspaceport.state.ok.us/


now to get the Yamamoto off of the sea floor so that I may begin my construction...

To justify sending our military into another country, there are at least two conditions that have to be met:

1. It is morally justified
2. It serves our national interest (which may include humanitarian causes)

For that reason, we can't be the world's police in every situation.

As far as our national interests are concerned, do you really think the only difference between Israel and Iraq is oil? If Israel had oil, do you believe we would overthrow their government?

Our country has a problem with everything. We're fucked! Completely!

Yeah I was just in Europe and I noticed all sorts of people from all different countries reppin themselves at like the festival I went to. I thought for a sec, 'gosh, I'd be totally ashamed to put the US flag on me right now...' and that's sad. I feel like the US flag is synonomous with wearing cowboy boots and a cross around your neck. :(..... oh and also synonomous with killing people and making enemies abroad. Damn.

You can't really bitch at us, becuz what the fuck have you done to help?
But I will say that being American doesn't make me proud.

exactly, all the 99 other countries (or however many there are) do is sit on their asses and bitch and moan...and watch our entertainment, and use all of our American inventions....except China, they actually work...it'll be funny when China is the #1 country in the world and everyone starts learning some Mandarin so they can bitch to China...

i never blamed you.
i said myself, my family, and friends are to blame.

I like the US of A.

I never understood why we were called American. I mean America is two continents.

because people in South America dont say "Im South American" when you ask where theyre from....Theyll say 'Brazlian' or 'Peruvian' or 'columbian' ....natch...because they're diff countries...

I say i'm a nor'easter, gets all the ladies.

No but I do think the hypocritical attitude to a regime that detains without trial, steals land, defies the League of Nations and the United Nations thereby making a mockery of said institutions, shoots 400 children dead under the age of 14 in a two year period for throwing stones at tanks and is the running sore of the middle east causing many of the spin off problems in the region should come marginally higher up the list for invasion than that of an egomaniac with an oil field

The double standards by the US government , which consistently vetoes any criticism of the state of Israel, does more to recruit terrorism than any speech by Osama Bin Laden

As for being the worlds policemen, George Bush Senior said the US wasnt the worlds policemen and good old George W said the US were!

Someone needs to make there mind up

By the way, both your criteria for overthrowing the regime in Israel are met, its morally justified and humanitarian reasons dictate it should happen

Millions of Palestinians still in refugee camps for 40 years because Israeli "settlers" have moved onto their land?

Underneith all the pop culture twatage, corporate/goverment corruption, pscyho-intrusive advertising, etc. I like to think that there is something redeemable and noble about this large clump of dirt.

amen.

Im diggin this new Madlib....i wonder whats up with all these dudes suddenly being interested in India...Wes Anderson's new flick is being shot there too....Normally it isnt film to music though....these kind of relations...normally this happens in movies all the time though...like when Armageddon and Deep Impact came around the same time...or Antz and A Bug's Life....or even the 2 Capote movies....

that's a bit narrow-minded, don't you think?

i dont like to drag down the main point with details

so you have read Imajica too?

sort of yeah, but not exactly.

AMERICA is a continent. which is what your answer is not addressing.

so people from south america say they are AMERICAN like the french say they are EUROPEAN.

problem is, when the USA was created all the rest of the continent ws european colonies, so they got first dibs on the name united states of AMERICA-- other countries followed such as estados unidos MEXICANOS and estados unidos DO BRASIL.

this creates a situation as if germany was called "federal republic of europe" and called themselves "the europeans" thus excluding all other "europeans". but it wasn't done on purpose or something.

it was thomas jefferson's plan to colonize the whole continent though. it might stll happen-- a few decades from now, borders melting, etc.

of course "americans" have ignored anything that's happened "south of the border" since forever... but that's another story.

yes, but when someone asks where you are from, you answer with your country, not your continent...thats all i was saying....as to the future blending of the americas, i wouldnt really mind...i like most of them....and i dont think it really bothers them to say "south America", does it?