Sonic Youth Gossip - favorite jean-luc godard movies?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

hot damn i hit the godard encyclopedia

By 'godard encyclopedia' you mean adam, right?

Haha. Thanks, I know a few things. I'll bump it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

..........other favorites of mine:
- Keep Your Right Up (this film is FUNNY! It seems like Godard was trying to make a comedy here -- a pilot reading a book called "how to commit suicide" for example -- albeit one that is HIGHLY elliptical, idiosynchratic, and bizarre as hell. So much of this film is ridiculous. I love it. Interestingly, Godard actually promoted the hell out of this film, and said he was really proud of it. It's easy to see why.)

- Alphaville (AMAZING, dark nighttime photography; also, Godard lets his sense of humor shine through here, with some of the "action" scenes and when a character turns his cigarette lighter on by shooting at it. Brilliant little film, though I find it a bit overrated -- this is another one of those films that many people will watch and then never bother with Godard again, thus missing out on lots of important films. However, it's an excellent film... definitely stands out as an oddity amongst Godard's films, as there is a very clear storyline and the film remains extremely striaghtforward throughout)

- In the Mood for Love (his "third 1st movie", this is considered by quite a few peopel to be his crowning achievement, and it's easy to see why. It's beautiful, both in the opening half, with the amazing black and white photography.. and the 2nd half, with the oversaturated digital colors. I absolutely love this film, though some might be put off by its incredibly slow pace. The framing, editing, and music are topnotch.)

- Numero Deux (one of his "essay films", and one of his most disturbing films, period. This one is a bit mean spirited and ugly -- the film was originally called "breathless 2" and part of THIS film seems to be about how "Breathless" is a joke, kinda making fun of Godard's early works, while establishing his grumpy, dark later works.. indeed, many of the themes Godard is still focusing on to this day were originated in this film. There are super long takes of Godard talking in this film, which are extremely fascinating. I'd highly reccomend tracking down this VHS; it's worth it, and if ever a film needed to be seen on a VHS, it's this one [you'll see why when you see the movie])

- First Name: Carmen (filmed around the same time as Passion, this film is stunningly beautiful and focuses on many of the same themes as Passion. Excellent movie.)

- A Married Woman (one of Godard's most straightforward, this is a very simple tale of... a married woman. Lighter and simpler than most of his works, it's still a very compelling tale; the simplicity is deceptive, there's a lot bubbling underneath the surface. Often considered a "minor work", but still genuinely well liked, this is a really good place to start with Godard, in my opinion. It kinda eases you into some of his stylistic techniques, though it invents a few things Godard never experimented with much again [whole scenes filmed in "negative", though seen briefly in Alphaville; a focus on ads for clothing, though this is touched upon a wee bit in 2 or 3 Things...)

- FILM: SOCIALSIEM (his latest tfilm appears to have been shot with all kinds of different digital cameras and webcameras. In a way, it feels kinda like some youtube videos -- it even has LOLCATS! But if you've seen many youtube videos that were made by young youtube "directors"... or if you're familiar with the CURRENT channel, which uses a lot of viewer submitted videos... this movie feels like a response to that, and part of that movement. VEry interested. Godard always loves working with new technology, and he uses the digital camera in a way that a lot of experimental directors use it -- but not used often by establishe directors. He exploits flaws and glitches in the film, for example.. the first 40 minutes is sorta like that,a youtube-ish documentary about people on a vacation, on a boat. Then the film kinda focuses on some characterrs who talk a lot but don't interact, in beatufiul scenes very reminescent of every Godard film amde in the last 30 years. The final 15 minutes is an essay on EVERYTHING. This is a staggering, densely-layered film that is going to require many many watches to appreciate all the nuances. But just from the one watch I've had, I love it)

- Joy of Learning/Le Gai Savor (often forgotten/overlooked, this is one long essay about language, filmed in front of a black background on a stage, with two actors.. there, of course, is a LOT to take in. But it's worth it)

- Tout Va Bien (this should have in my top 10, as it's one of my favorite Godard films as well, though also overlooked. My fingers hurt, so please see this film.)

I hope that was helpful....

TIME FOR WORK!

enjoy.

So.

Been watching every Godard film ever made in order. Hahaha.

If you skip his television serieses, Historie(s) du cinema, his Group stuff with Gorin (though you should watch British Sounds, Joy of Learning, and tout Va bien as they are more "film" films than the other stuff like Struggles in Italy and Wind From the East) and all his shorts (the man has a LOT of shorts), he only has, oh 37 films. I noticed he never made a film longer than 2 hours either.

I am slowly getting all the shorts I've never seen... though I have probably 10 of his shorts, I'm discovering new ones all the time. He did this one called AMORE.. yeah, just "Love". It's absolutely AMAZING! One woman talks in French, one man talks in Italian, and they talk about another couple, describing them and their "Role" in the "film". Then, the film happens. The way the scenes are framed... off-center, sometimes just the eyes or the mouth... is actually pretty wild compared to Godard's other films, especially at the time (right before Week End). Kinda odd. There's a long static shot of a man talking about cinema disappearing and the screen goes black -- odd that I'd used this same exact idea in Currently Untitled, well before I'd seen this film, or even heard of it!

There's another long static shot with a man talking and for no apparent reason, the camera starts wildly zipping diagnolly and from side-to-side.

Great little short. If you're on cinemageddon, type in godard. Many of his shorts are on btjunkie as well, though they're ALWAYS packed with compilations.. in other words, you have to watch the whole film, they're very very rarely cut and by themselves.

I highly reccomend ANTICIPATION, his 12 minute short with anna karina as a prostitute (real original eh?). It's the last film they made together, and Godard sets out to degrade her in it. Pretty wild. She plays some kind of sex robot prostitute thing and a guy sprays white cream on her face as she licks it up. Pretty, uh, weird.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Okay...

QUESTION: ASP, WHAT GODARD FILM DO YOU RECCOMEND?

ME: I'd reccomend all of his films aside from Detective and Les Carabiners. Seriously. Maybe you can skip a few shorts and a television series. But everything else is indispensable if you want a good view of "what's so important".

My favorite work by him is Histoire(s) du cinema -- I think it's one of the most important works of art of the past 50 years or so.

His "most important" film is, perhaps, Breathless, where a lot of people start and stop. But to be honest, Breathless (as well as Contempt and Band Of Outsiders) has never been one of my favorites. Still a decent film, and worth a watch, and it's important for its use of jump cuts, the energy of the direction (camera constantly moving), and how it feels "plotless" at times (like everything was made up on the spot). It kinda invented modern movies as we know them and is a great film, but he would refine all of the techniques he used in it on later films.

Anyway, here are my top 10 Godard films, with some comments here are there:

1. Every Man For Himself/Slow Motion (bleak/dark as hell; this was Godard's "2nd first film", as it was his first film -- with actors and a "plot" -- in 13 years up to that point; an absolute masterpiece of sound, editing, direction, cinematography, and experimentation -- indeed, quite a bit of the film is done in "slow motion", and the results are staggering)

2. Pierrot Le fou (his most colorful and best-looking film; was a huge influence on everyone from Takeshi Kitano [Hana-Bi, Sonatine, Dolls] to Chantal Akerman [News from Home, Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles]. The direction on this one is probably Godard's best from his older films; sometimes, the camera is completely static; other times, it's following character around for many minutes... there's a great scene where the camera is zoomed in for miles and you see some action, and then the camera abruptly zooms out and spins around to show some action in the apartment. Also, can't forget the scene where they drive the car into the sea! SO MANY iconic shots, bits of dialogue, etc... this is truly an unforgettable film experience, with a haunting score and a freewheeling attitude to plot that makes it truly revolutionary. A must-watch.

3. Oh, Woe Is Me (this was the 2nd film I saw by Godard -- after Week End -- and it's probably not the best place to start, not one of the better films to see by him when you start your Godard journey... but, yeah, it's still absolutely one of my favorite films by him, period. Just from watching it, you can tell there was a very troubled shoot, as a lot of things don't seem to make sense; everyone seems angry, in my opinion. After reading Richard Brody's book, I now know why everything is so damn dark and depressing in this film. There is an atmosphere here you will likely not see in any other film, and the INSANE editing and how Godard plays with image and sound is absolutely genius in this. Might technically be his best film, and definitely his most densely layered. A staggering brilliant and rewarding film, one you may need to watch a few times to "get", but also one of his most addictive and beautiful.)

4. Week End (first film I saw by him, and I was hooked! Lots of long takes; the 9 minute traffic jam being probably my favorite scene in the history of cinema. This film is mostly made up of lots of great vignettes put together. Lots of interesting stylistic diversions, as well. A brilliant movie, and also quite a strange movie to boot, this was a cinematic middle finger at the time; but nowadays, it just seems ahead of its time -- there still hasn't been another movie like it, in my opinion.)

5. My Life to Live (his darkest film, perhaps, from his early period, but one of his most engaging and straightforward. Every scene in this movie is great... I especially like the guy who acts like a little kid blowing up a balloon. Anna Karina complained in real life that Godard made her look ugly, but she looks beautiful in this film -- everything does. Some of the most amazing cinematography ever; the black and white is unbelievable. An extremely depressing film.)

6. King Lear (this one's a controversial pick, to be certain, as the people who love it REALLY REALLY love it.. and the people who hate it.. well.. you know. I happen to be one of the people who thinks it's one of the best films ever made. It's downright strange, and it takes a few watches to see its brilliance.. but it's definitely Godard's most bizarre work; it almost feels like a David Lynch film at times.. like Inland Empire or something. I'm not even joking. An incredibly weird film, but it's entertaining as hell. Case in point: Early in the film, it shows an actor leaving the set of the movie, with Godard narrating how the actor was.. well.. leaving the set. At another point, a character is talking about great directors, gets to Godard's enemy [by that point] Trauffaut, and makes a somewhat disparaging comment against him. There are seagull sound effects every few minutes, while the rest of the music is Beethoven slowed way, way down... let's not forget the part where Godard puts the petals on a flower through the use of a reverse effect. I love this film with all my heart and soul, but it's definitely the only one on my list that most people don't consider a great film.)

7. Hail Mary (another controversial pick, but this film is absolutely amazing. So engaging and full of life at times; other times, it's dark and slow and agonizing. A very ambitious film, and very bleak like much of Godard's later work, don't go into this one expecting a good time for 90 minutes, but it remains Godard's most haunting film, in my opinion, one that I return to quite often.)

8. Le Petit Soldat (another film by him that I feel is extremely underrated, this one remains little-seen compared to all the rest of his early works, yet I think it's one of his best. Shot shortly after Breathless and featuring the debut of the young, beautiful Anna Karina, this film does everything Breathless tried to do but completely refines it. I think THIS is the film people should start their Godard journey with. An absolutely amazing work of art.)

9. Notre Musique (one of Godard's most recent, and also his most elliptical and confusing since OH, WOE IS ME... this is, again, a beautiful beautiful film... one I personally hold in very high regard, but it seems to attract a lot of hatred as well, for reasons that are easy to see when watching the film -- everything is dense, and there is a LOT to take in. This is pretty heady and deep stuff, it's not an easy watch if you like to just turn a movie on and shut your brain down. Be warned -- you'll need to watch this film a few times to understand everything that's going on. But it's worth it.. and the direction is so good, you won't mind giving this film your undivided attention many times over.)

10. Passion (oh how I love this film, it is very dear to me. Beautiful locales, likeable characters.. this is a film I can really connect with. 80's Godard is probably my favorite period for the man, I think he was really onto something, before he went a little insane. This film is a pretty "easy" watch compared to most of his late-period stuff, one you should have no problem with. I am guessing this one would be liked even by those who don't really get into Godard usually, it's just a great multi-layered "story"...)

This is great. Thanks for all your work in this thread Man, I fuckin love it. I'm gonna revisit my (20 or so) Godards real soon.

Haha, somehow I never read anything about Sauve qui peut (la vie) before, but I MUST have it. Now!

Watching A Woman Is A Woman tonight, and I'm blown away by the advances made in this second feature, but Breathless gets much more attention I think.

(Slight aside: "Hurry up, Breathless is on tv tonight") :)

This muthafucker is witty and Lynchian, and I can't believe it was done in 61....so ahead of it's time. The "cut up" / randomness in the sound design itself is worthy of a thesis. Absolutely fascinating early 60s cinema. Godard took gigantic steps with this.

Glad you dug it, but UNE FEMME EST UNE FEMME is his 3rd film. LE PETIT SOLDAT -- one of his best films of any period -- was his 2nd film.

Anyway, I re-watched FIRST NAME CARMEN this week, which I might actually like a bit more than PASSION now. There is an AMAZING boxset of 4 Godard films (passion, oh woe is me, detective, first name carmen, and a 30 minute documentary) that I got a couple of years back for $20. LIONSGATE released it (at the same time as Saw V... uh, okay!?). Indeed, it has 3 of his best films -- and Detective, which could have easily been replaced with the film NOUVELLE VAGUE, since that and Slow Motion have never been released here, in any format.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Glad you dug it, but UNE FEMME EST UNE FEMME is his 3rd film. LE PETIT SOLDAT -- one of his best films of any period -- was his 2nd film.

I thought Petit Soldat was like, 4th?

Quote:

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

I have that set, and I really want to dig into it again real soon. I thought all 4, incl the much maligned Detective, were great. I'll see if I can find some of my previously posted comments about it on another forum....

"......
Jean-Luc Godard’s second full-length film after the ground-breaking and highly praised À bout de souffle was Le Petit soldat, his first political film, centred around the Algerian conflict. His direct approach, which included some potentially inflammatory rhetoric and a disturbing torture scene, was too much for the censors and the film, made in 1960, was banned, being released only in 1963 once the war with Algeria had ended."

Well ain't I the fuckin asshole?

I might regret this, but here are some naive yet passionate comments I made at the time of that box set.....on another forum.....

Some of the farcical/quarrelling sequences in Passion (1982) reminded me of Woody Allen's great works. And then I got to wondering if any of Allen's films ever mimic great paintings. This wasn't my favourite Godard, to be sure, but it moved me, and confounded me. And I do want to see it again. The second half was a very different animal, quite choreographed, compared to what came before. Somehow this work does seem slightly more dated than much of his 60s works though. Anyway, these are my initial and jumbled thoughts, for what they are worth, which might not be much. So there.

First Name: Carmen has everything that a big blockbuster must have: Sex, a bank robbery, blood, guns, a rockin soundtrack, yuks galore, mental institutions, and irony (both comic and tragic), plus some other things.

I bet it was playing down the street when I went to see Flashdance. (What a feeling!) Oh the innocence of youth.

I'm quite convinced that if Passion and First Name: Carmen had suddenly dropped out of the sky as the first works of a brand new Director, there would be seperate and long threads about these, and we'd be gushing over them as fresh, ingenious and tantalizing works that slap Reagan's and Thatcher's faces while giving the finger to the MTV crowd. Or something like that.

Nobody needs an atomic bomb or a plastic cup.

"The End Of Small Films" my arse. Godard continued to be the unflinching champion of The Small Film, following that bold faced lie at the end of First Name: Carmen.

I thoroughly enjoyed Passion and Carmen, but Detective is in a higher plane/field/class from those altogether, methinks. The Lionsgate 82-95 box has thus far demonstrated to me that Godard never wavered/weakened/submitted. Tragedy, comedy, experimentation, bafflement, beauty....imho, these films proudly, defiantly, and with subtlety compete with the 60s works.

Did they even mention Detective in the Lionsgate Box bonus feature (JLG: A Riddle Wrapped In An Enigma)? Sigh.... "Passion this, Carmen that, Helas the other....."

Anyway...Helas Pour Moi is my new favourite Godard film. Oh I know....when I view Contempt or Pierrot again, I'll not be able to remember anything about Helas. Perhaps.

The first 5mins of Helas Pour Moi alone clearly outstrips the start of any other JLG by miles, in terms of....er....dramatic surrealistic alien intrigue. Or something like that.

OK look....I've only viewed half of it. I'm confounded, floored, desperate to see it again and again, and wondering if there is Criorg Love for this surely overlooked, forgotten, underappreciated Strange Beautiful Thing. I know nothing of the Cinematographer here, but he/she must be singled out and given the highest accolades available to any of his/her peers, ever. Visually, this lovely film is a wonder to behold.

Himself Himself outdid Himself here. The 80s slapstick is gone, for better or worse, and we are left with a very focussed, shocking, confusing, audacious work of ingeniousness. I'll have a lot more to say about this when I've viewed it some more, and when I'm sober. In the meantime, you must profess your hidden love for this Masterpiece, you JLG People, you.

I'm very surprised that anyone familiar with Godard would consider Helas Pour Moi to be a mess. I was captivated (and confused, in equal measure) by this very strange, beautiful, hallucinatory (is that a word?) yet slightly frustrating film. This surely must be one his very least understood / most overlooked works.

Is the damn thing supposed to be 85mins or something else, please? I'm seeing conflicting information on this.

my copy is round about 85 minutes yeah.

My 2nd viewing of La Chinoise was revelatory. The Enlightenment. (I would rather chew tinfoil on the first viewing.)

Of the 20 Godards I've seen, I find this one to be the most......yes, I shall say it.......suspenseful. It's almost King Kongian (1933) in it's slow and careful buildup. ("We don't see the monster until 60mins in.") We endure lecture / parody / satire / skit / confusion / contradiction / naivetee / Communism 101 / The Politics Of 1967 (or May 1968, wow!!) for what seems an eternity, but all the while something is brewing / ready to boil.....and when that decision/course is reached, I sat there Spellbound, in awe of the Hitchcocian journey in disguise that I was taken on to this point. The train dialogue with Jeanson serves as breather and teaser....(get that monster over to New York!) It's such a brillaint scene, static camera on the window view, conversants.....until the plot is revealed. OK I'm slightly drunk. But this admittedly very dated film must certainly be one of Godard's most gloriously calculatingly paced / structured / inclined (ie uphill slope) works. When push comes to shove, plotwise, I was Breathless. It was....dare I say it....Mansonian in it's horrificness.

I shall be crucified for this post, I know it. But La Chinoise really hit me on viewing #2.

Yeah I loved La Chinoise.

Looking for his best works from 1980 and up. Help me out fellas.

Helas Pour Moi (Oh Woe is Me)
King Lear
Sauve qui pet (le vie)/Slow Motion

Then again, I haven't seen as much as atsonicpark.

Thanks Derek! But let me clarify myself...

I've already seen King Lear, Slow Motion, Socialisme and Hail Mary.

I'll look into Oh Woe is Me.....thanks! :cool:

All post-80's stuff is amazing, but yeah, OH WOE IS ME is the best probably. Besides slow motion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Eugene Felikson

Thanks Derek! But let me clarify myself...

I've already seen King Lear, Slow Motion, Socialisme and Hail Mary.

I'll look into Oh Woe is Me.....thanks! :cool:

Oh, you didn't mention that YOU CUNT.

No prob. :cool:

I love Oh Woe Is Me because the first 70 minutes or so don't really have to do with the real "plot" and then the last 15 minutes kinda just has the beginning, middle, and end and it wraps up the previosu 70 minutes nicely. It's Godard's densest work, and arguably his most visually explosive. It's just amazing. THAT PINBALL MACHINE. It took me about 10 watches to fully understand, but it's just so genius.

If one is interested in late period Godard ,just get the anchor bay 4-dvd set with passion, carmen, detective, and oh woe is me. I got it used for $10. It has a documentary with it too and a cool metallic slip case signed by Godard. It's pretty much all you need.