Sonic Youth Gossip - Israel vs the rest of the middle east

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- - Israel vs the rest of the middle east (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=4097)

http://www.israel-un.org/sec_council...14july2006.htm
Statement by the israeli ambassador to the UN before the Security Council:

Quote:

[..] Lebanon is today occupied by terror, whether in the south, where it is directed at Israel, or in Beirut, where it kills opponents of Syria and former prime ministers. The real occupying power in Lebanon is terror – terror instigated by Hizbullah but initiated, funded and perpetrated by Syria and Iran.

The Lebanese government, having missed so many chances in the past, at such a horrendous cost to its people, today has another chance to free itself from the stranglehold of terror. Another chance, Mr. President, to release itself from the evil control of Syria and the deadly influence of Iran, and deploy its forces in the south, exercising its sovereignty over a free Lebanon.

Mr. President,
There are words that speak far louder and clearer than anything I can voice today. These are voices of Lebanese – brave, patriotic Lebanese parliamentarians and ministers – who just over the last two days have cried out to all of us from the brink of the abyss in their beloved country. Let me quote some of these courageous statements. The words of Lebanon’s communication minister, Mr. Maruan Hammuda, saying only yesterday that “Damascus gives the orders, Iran supplies the equipment, Israel reacts, Lebanon is the victim.”

Or the words of Elias Attallah, a Lebanese politician representing a majority of its parliament members: “ We welcome any Arab and international support but strongly oppose any enforced involvement of Lebanon by regional players’ considerations (a reference to Syria and Iran) that are not within the interests of the Lebanese people for the sole attempt to achieving opportunistic benefits at the expense of the Lebanese people…The Syrian regime indulges itself in teaching Lebanon and Palestine lessons according to its own interests through these peoples. Why do those who always protect this regime express understanding of its reasons and preferences and do not express any understanding of Lebanon’s reasons and preferences?”

Or the words of an unnamed Lebanese minister, who said, “The Hizbullah has not only kidnapped two Israeli soldiers, it has taken the whole of Lebanon hostage.”

Mr. President,
With your permission, I would like to make a personal appeal to my esteemed Lebanese colleague.

Your Excellency,
You know, deep down, that if you could, you would add your voice to those of your brave countrymen. You know, deep down in your heart, that you should really be sitting here, next to me, voicing the same opinion. You know that what we are doing is right, and, if we succeed, your country will be the real beneficiary. I am sure many of our colleagues around this table and in this chamber, including many or our neighbours, share this sentiment.

Mr. President,
This Council and the international community have a duty today to help the Lebanese people achieve the goal of a free, prosperous and democratic Lebanon. The sad and tormented life of this war-torn land has today entered another sad chapter in its history. It is up to every one of us to help write this chapter, to ensure that this opportunity is seized, not only for the benefit of the Lebanese and Israeli people, but for the sake of generations to come.
Thank you Mr. President.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

I refuse to take sides, but let's not forget that Dimona's Negev Nuclear Research Center can be a reason for Iran and others arming themselves. Israel's nuclear capability is not to be underestimated and extremely worrying to neighbouring countries.
Even the US had their doubts as to what was going on in Dimona when it was first built.

Iran isn't quite a neighbouring country to Israel.

Literally they're not, no, but a threat never the less. Remember the first gulf war and the Iraqi scuds reaching Israeli soil? Long range missiles are abundant in those parts of the world.

yeah we should know we sold them to most of them along with russia.

'whats that? your nation has a terrible record on human rights and shows contempt for all around. have some of these weapons'

Ok I didnt read much past page four but Im fairly familiar with both sides of this interminable debate, i just wanted to reply to a couple of the earlier statements about choosing sides etc, as well as the whole left right thing. I just think its about time that sort of thing stops, your enemies enemy is not your friend, ideologically Im pretty left but cant support any leftist parties because of all the bloody Socialists, these people refuse to accept the USSR as a bad entity because it was the enemy of the US, they gloss over Cambodia, China, North Korea etc just cause they represent an alternative. And they still call each other Comrade in meetings which makes them impossible to take seriously. Anyway factionalism and choosing sides is the key ingredient in conflict, whats needed is third party moderators and neutral influences to calm shit down, like international institutions or non politically alligned organisations, or popular movements of the people.
In terms of this situation people always immediately choose sides and demonise the other, no attempt at understanding is made. Israel supporters dont recognise the poverty, occupation, loss of land and refugee crisis as legitimate grievances. Supporters of Palestinians/Arabs refuse to recognise Israels security concerns, or the historic foundations for their sensitivity. Both sides claim to be right. Dogmatic refusal to understand or emphathise with the enemy gets people nowhere.

I personally think in this case the onus is on Israel to withdraw to 1967 borders, I think all their peace deals etc are token gestures without that being done. But that doesnt make them a target for civilian attacks, suicide bombings and rocket attacks on population centres arent justified by that. Likewise responses that do the same. And round and round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bytheriver

Agreed.

And round and round...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

Literally they're not, no, but a threat never the less. Remember the first gulf war and the Iraqi scuds reaching Israeli soil? Long range missiles are abundant in those parts of the world.

Remember the Iran/Iraq war? Iran's nuclear program was started as a deterrant to Saddam. They have made a lot of threats towards Israel over the years, none of them defensive in nature.

Quote:

Saudi Arabia blames Hizbollah in Lebanon crisis
RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia on Thursday blamed "elements" inside Lebanon for the violence with Israel, in unusually frank language directed at guerrilla group Hizbollah and its Iranian backers.

"A distinction must be made between legitimate resistance and uncalculated adventures undertaken by elements inside (Lebanon) and those behind them without recourse to the legal authorities and consulting and coordinating with Arab nations,"

[..]

Major Arab governments other than Syria are not expected to give unqualified backing Hizbollah, or the Palestinian militant group Hamas which is holding an Israeli soldier hostage.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/13072006/32...on-crisis.html

Wow, that`s quite surprising, in a positive way.
I`m pretty opposed to Saudi government, but their stance on the Lebanese/Israeli conflict sounds pretty reasonable.

Israel---terorrist Number 1. ! ! ! !

Die, space_monkey...

fuck off alyasa!!can you see how many civilians have israels army killed in 3 day ,so fuck off stupid bitch!!

Both sides do shady shit man......if people would either say fuck yr old religion or have some God damn respect (since they are so Holy) for other people/religion then there wouldn't be all of this shit going down because of boredom.....get a life or stop by my place for the party you bastids. WAKE UP.

I heard that 8 Canadians were killed in an Israeli air raid in Lebanon yesterday.
Maybe now that Israel has made it clear that they don't care who they kill, the International community will finally start trying to organise a cease fire.

BTW did anyone hear Bush's 'off air' solution to the crisis?
He thought his mike was off, and was talking to Blair whilst eating his lunch. The conversation went thusly:
Bush - "What they need to do is get Syria to get Hizbollah to stop doing this shit and it's all over"

Blair - "Hmmm"

I wonder if that's the message Condi will be taking with her when she visits the area.

Looks like this shit is escalating...

...and it looks like it's not ever going to end.

Was Bush's mic faux pas staged or really real?
On a related note, has anyone seen the unwelcome massage that Bush gave to German Chancellor Angela Merkel?

I also find it a bit curious how every time "Hezbollah rockets" are mentioned, the Iranian connection is rightly made, but every time "Israeli warplanes" are mentioned, no one bothers to report that these are undoubtably F-16 fighters that the U.S. sold Israel.

Today, the early coverage is of the helicopter carrier USS Iwo Jima that has been sent to escort chartererd cruise ships carrying Americans (& other evacuees?) & also help pick-up those in Lebanon that want to leave. What the news isn't telling everyone is that refugees are being asked by the U.S. State Department to sign a promissory note, for which they are billed later for around three hundred dollars, plus the interest on the note.

This has already lasted longer than 6 days....
I saw what florya mentioned about the g8 footage where Bush and Blair were talking privately with the mics still on. Fucking gunslinging cowboys is what they are!

Quote:

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Was Bush's mic faux pas staged or really real?
On a related note, has anyone seen the unwelcome massage that Bush gave to German Chancellor Angela Merkel?

WTF? This guy doesn't know how to keep his hands to himself! :mad: