do you now know how much money it costs to make commercials and air them in over 12oo MARKETS repeatedly to get yr point accross?? the reopublicsna have BILLIOSNand they can afford to asaturate airwaves. obama has HAD to get that much money to fight hillary and now to fight mccain.

the problem i see with all your arguments here stem from your manichaean approach. for you it's all "good vs. evil", and everything has a moral weight, but it's not just that, but it's Absolute Good vs. Absolute Evil, so you must not only take sides but you must take them in an absolutist way. you're saying "my way or the highway", basically.

reality however doesn't work that way. it's delusional to pin moral judgments on non-human events. most good and most evil fall into a huge grey area. and then good actions have bad consequences, bad actions have good consequences, you try to fix something and something else breaks. there are unintended outcomes from every act. so it's a constant struggle. "bad people" can do good things and "good people" often do shitty stuff. there are no absolutes.

and then, in order to make changes with large numbers of people you must make compromises. human progress is a slow, hard road. you cannot "impose good" instantly, by will. as if you had some kinda transforming ray. so it's a struggle, but it's not the absolutist one you imagine it is. and those who have tried to imposed absolute good (with various "revolutions") have ultimately unleashed terror upon the populations they sought to redeem: robespierre, mao, pol pot, the ayatollahs, the madman hitler, lenin, stalin, castro, etc., etc.

hey look - Roger Ebert on Sarah Palin:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/othervi...tpalin.article

And again Ebert hits the nail on the head

We are talking about the exact same thing, the difference is that my entire argument is that VOTING is absolute LEAST thing you can do to ACTUALLY and DIRECTLY solve the problems of our society, one individual at a time. The solutions I propose involve each individual doing his best for the greater good, and the interconnection of these individual efforts will combine to solve the problems. The problems were created by each of us allowing the shit to hit the fan, and so each one of us has to clean it up, and voting is more like diagnosing the mess, without getting out the mop to beginning actually cleaning.

Then run for Congress and show them how it's done.

balls. voting is THE BEGINNING. if you can't even get your ass to the voting booth, you're not going to get into any kind of community involvement or shit like that.

true that

You should probably move to either Seattle or San Francisco, because I'm pretty sure that's where all the "I'm gonna leave the country if that Republican guy wins" liberals end up after each election. I've been hearing that line since Bush senior was running.

Of course if McCain wins, then many of the young males on here might be moving to Iran courtesy of the selective service...

maybe i should clear something up.

i have the money to actually leave and i have no qualms about doing so.

And where exactly will you go to escape Amerika? Somewhere with total freedom and no right-wing assholes I presume?

nonsense, utter nonsense.

i don't care how one-sided (add or replace other demeaning modifier phrases) mccain and palin are, i would rather have their administration over obama's socialist promises.

i already said, i'm going to siberia where everyone will leave me the fuck alone.

What the fuck is everyone's problem with liberals on this fucking board? Seriously. If you're going to bash me or anyone else for their political views and not them as a person, go the fuck ahead. It just proves how narrow-minded you are.

The thing with Liberal's terriblecanyons is they are just as smug as the right-wing.

okay here. let me break it down according to lewis black.


it's like choosing between two bowls of shit, and the only difference is the smell.

really? I don't think so. Most liberals I know aren't smug at all.

I have both, also the lack of apathy they have towards voting.

who is receiving more corporate money? that should indicate who'll win

what the fuck is this "socialism" you speak of.

you think the fake unfettered capitalism that gave us enron, the mortgage crisis, bear sterns, and now lehman brothers, is really "free market"? guess who ends up paying for that shit. you do, i do. fucking corporate welfare socialism.

who the fuck ends up paying for the destruction and reconstruction of iraq, for the care of veterans and their lifetime of treatment, who the fuck pays for the increased oil prices, and who the fuck bears the brunt of tens of of thousands of army reservists and national guards away from their jobs stuck with military pay families broken up PTSD out the wazoo? they do, you do, i do. fucking militaristic socialism.

the national debt right now is


i am trying to buy health insurance right now and i can easily afford the premiums (less than $200/mo). the problem is that it's a shitty kind of insurance, they can reject you for any reason, they cover only part of your expenses, and you're basically fucked if you do, fucked if you don't. the market does not always take care of everything, and if you believe that you're high on pseudo-libertarian cocaine.

fuck your bullshit lies.

amen amen amen, ne' amin! [amen amen amen, I agree!]

WTF Is this country the most stupidest?

okay. so... we should tax... more?

we could discuss this back and forth all day long. actually, longer. i hate mccain, i hate obama. mccain wants to stay in it for the war and he's an overall idiot, while obama hasn't logically thought out how the fuck he's gonna accomplish his promises (but i know how he will... raise taxes), and he supports the load of mental health parity/psychiatric GARBAGE.

i know you all seem to hate ron paul here, but at least he wanted american government to (more than it is now, at least) stick to the constitution and abolish the fucking IRS (hellllllllo fairtax). would he have been able to do this? fuck no. not with a democratic congress that can't seem to get anything done, which may or may not have lead to their approval rating that is 1/3 of bush's.

i don't want to rattle anyone's cage, so i'm not up for arguing. and i'd also like to point out i will not be able to vote in this election because i won't be 18, so there you go. not only would my vote not mean anything, but i can't even give it.

solution: follow cantankerous to siberia.

oh! you mean that you don't understand yet how the world works. it's ok then-- all is forgiven. and sorry about my harshness.



but for your information, obama is for cutting the taxes of the working & middle classes-- he does not subscribe to the supply side eco-nomix that claims that lowering taxes on the rich will somehow promote the economy & benefit everyone--there is no laffer curve-- facts prove this, but the repukes are against facts, science, & common sense.

he's also for ending the stupid wars and the 10 billion dollars a day we're spending in iraq.

it's under the republicans that the trade deficit has ballooned, the national debt has exploded, and the economy has going to shit while the taxpayer has to bailout irresponsible megacorporations.

moreover, providing universal health care would be a boon for business. i currently own a small business and i can't even find insurance for my own in my state-- if i had an employee, i would have to offer benefits to compete with other employers who offer group health plans. small businesses cannot afford to offer health benefits to their employees.

i could go on an on. im just trying to point out that reality and lofty ideals rarely match.

Show me the coin used for paying the tax."

They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

"Caesar's," they replied.



Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's

The national debt also takes into consideration the money it owes it's citizens (i.e. banks), still a shit ton though.