Sonic Youth Gossip - The Politics Thread

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

It is indeed absolutely insane -inhumane, in fact- that you don't have a competitive public option. Shit, even here, in the Chicago Boys laboratory, there is one...

the swiss do subsidies, and in a way this is how expanded medicaid works: you get a free plan that's fulfilled by a private insurer like blue cross.

the problem is that to qualify for medicaid expansion you have to constantly "prove that you're poor" to your own state. which is a bad incentive.

the chicago boys would prefer that you get free money to spend as you please rather than a government program with the massive bureaucracy that it entails. eg healthcare vouchers for an insurance plan.

they invented the earned income tax credit for example.

eta: oh, and friedman had a huge role helping to end conscription, which he considered to be the basis of "an army of slaves."

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the chicago boys would prefer that you get free money to spend as you please rather than a government program with the massive bureaucracy that it entails. eg healthcare vouchers for an insurance plan.

Except the way it was implemented here not only didn't involve free money, it didn't give two shits for marginally decent wages either. And don't even get me started on the AFPs (Pension Funds Administrators), all private, and all forcing you to let them handle your coins until you're pretty much DEAD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

it could be worse, you could be getting a pension in bolívares

an empty chocolate wrapper is probably worth more

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

it could be worse, you could be getting a pension in bolívares

True enough, but it reminds me of this Bill Maher monologue in which he said Unitedstateseans who crap on the U.S. are crapping outside the bowl because nobody's trying to leave the States hanging from an airplane like they did in Kabul. So, Afghanistan is the bar now, Bill?

Hey, why are we the only two people posting on this thread anyway? Zombie apocalypse happened already or do I have to do something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

no idea in what context he said that but yeah we have net positive migration by far. we have people selling kidneys and crossing deserts to get in. so he's got a point.

not that all is perfect but cmon. the economic choice is between available options, not fictions like the big rock candy mountains. you probably know the song.

https://youtu.be/ovKk_kPmAk4

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Hey, why are we the only two people posting on this thread anyway? Zombie apocalypse happened already or do I have to do something?

who cares, if the subject is good?

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

no idea in what context he said that but yeah we have net positive migration by far. we have people selling kidneys and crossing deserts to get in. so he's got a point.

Rrrrright, but my point was that virtually anything compared to Afghanistan is gonna look good, and that on several areas -elections systems, healthcare, transportation, high-schoolers' performance, income distribution and more- you shouldn't go, Eh, we're fine compared to a failed fucking state.

Rock & roll, on the other hand, does make the U.S. #1, even with CBGBs gone. :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

we have people selling kidneys and crossing deserts to get in.

Incidentally, I need some goddamn money ASAP not to get into the States but to buy the latest installment in Dylan's Bootleg Series (Vol. 17: Fragments – Time Out Of Mind Sessions [1996-1997]), announced today. Anyone looking for a kidney, please drop me a line. Thanks in advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Incidentally, I need some goddamn money ASAP not to get into the States but to buy the latest installment in Dylan's Bootleg Series (Vol. 17: Fragments – Time Out Of Mind Sessions [1996-1997]), announced today. Anyone looking for a kidney, please drop me a line. Thanks in advance.

see, this is why you need an afp guarding your retirement money xD

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

see, this is why you need an afp guarding your retirement money xD

The "funny" (as in I laugh so not to cry) thing about these fuckers (who make GIGANTONORMOUS profits while you sit there like a mook with your shitty-ass crumbs of a pension) is their advertisement. "At AFP [insert the company's name here; "mine" is Habitat], your savings are YOUR savings!" No, you pieces of shit, I can't withdraw a single dime, and YOU are the ones either leaving my dough on life support there gathering a dollar per year or investing it in high-risk Wall St. bullcrap; either way I can't touch it. A legal Ponzi scheme like any other thank you very MUCH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

"The outcome of this election has not been called yet." Fuuuck me...

This old peg lost, by the way. Sorry, _tunic_. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

one sec one sec... how is that afp worse than a state-owned, bureucratically-managed social security trust fund, where you can't withdraw a single dime either... but politicians can sign blank checks against your retirement funds which they depleted a long time ago?

the usa can get away with it only because of the reserve currency status of the dollar. without it? you'd get something better than bolívares, but not by much.

besides, fixed income investment is not high risk by definition. everything is risk, of course, the question is how that risk is managed. can they manage it better than you? of that i'm sure (no offense, but you'd blow it all in records). can they manage it better than your national politicians? you tell me...

ultimately, the security of your investments depends on the robustness of the world economy, not on a government's printing press. wall street is just a market to buy and sell pieces and obligations of businesses and governments. and it's the economic output of your lifetime purchases in that global market that keeps you eating in old age.

We have a new special counsel, ladies and gentlemen (we are floating in space).

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

We have a new special counsel, ladies and gentlemen (we are floating in space).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Smith_%28lawyer%29

>> He was also the chief prosecutor at the International Court of Justice regarding war crimes in the Kosovo War. <<

- President Trump, how many Kosovans have you killed?
- NO PUPPET NO PUPPET YOU'RE THE PUPPET!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Man, what the fucking fuck...

Biden administration says Saudi prince has immunity in Khashoggi killing lawsuit

immunity stemming from being prime minister, yes. which apparently is the law, or something.

but it can't be denied that the saudis have had the usa by the balls for a long time now. i mean bin laden and the hijackers were saudi and nobody ever said anything about that... instead it was all kissy kissy with the saudi king and all aggro about fake iraq wmds.

now there's war with russia and a massive energy crisis...

why antagonize him further when you can't reach him anyway? this is just realpolitik.

(dependence on) the price of gas will kill us all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

This old peg lost, by the way. Sorry, _tunic_. :D

1. I didn't say she would win this election, but that she would be the next President!

2. the elections were rigged.

Not to debase Marshall McLuhan's media theory, but the medium really is the message:

Truth Social? "Meh."

Twitter? "WHERE'S NANCY?! HANG MIKE PENCE!!"

I've seen some reports that Oompa Loompa doesn't have much interest in returning to Twitter, despite it being available again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw2113

I've seen some reports that Oompa Loompa doesn't have much interest in returning to Twitter, despite it being available again.

fuck twatter lol. i quickly stopped missing it. i hope it goes bankrupt.

on that subject, i wonder what will happen to tesla next. will customers look down on the maga-mobile? i mean... for me, that brand is forever tainted.

meanwhile, i saw this on bloomberg news:

https://youtu.be/CZAZpxVuROw

trump a "three time loser" per repuke mega donor ken griffin

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

trump a "three time loser" per repuke mega donor ken griffin

Which reminds me of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da2jxmNrdd8

:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Which reminds me of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da2jxmNrdd8

:D

eh... she says that now. but i think she'll go wherever the money is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

eh... she says that now. but i think she'll go wherever the money is.

That was just The Lincoln Project using recent news to troll 45. The bulk of their new ad blitz is much more serious - dramatic, even.

ETA: All in all, let's remember she's under investigation for basically being part of third-generation grifters, so at this point she may have been adviced to keep some distance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

That was just The Lincoln Project using recent news to troll 45. The bulk of their new ad blitz is much more serious - dramatic, even.

the lincoln project is ok. i meant it about ivanka's declarations. the apple does not fall far from the tree. she talks about privacy with her family now. tomorrow if the wind changes she will say something else.

hey, remember when kushner established peace in the middle east? lmfao.

From Slate:

Quote:

This Is the Worst Time for Donald Trump to Return to Twitter

By Danielle Keats Citron and Hany Farid

Apparently, “Vox Populi” has spoken, and they want former President Trump back on Twitter. A thin majority of 51.8 percent of 15 million poll respondents (including, most likely, bots) voted in favor of Trump’s return.

Since purchasing Twitter, Musk has moved at light speed with little care for consequences. Immediately after elevating himself to self-proclaimed chief twit, Musk shoved out chief legal officer Vijaya Gadde, the leader of all things trust and safety. Musk then fired 3,000 people who put Gadde’s policies into practice: the contractors “behind the screen” who dealt with reports of hate speech, harassment, stalking, threats, nonconsensual intimate imagery, spam, and other violations of Twitter’s rules. In one fell swoop, content moderation at Twitter was eviscerated.

Before getting into what it might mean if Trump starts tweeting again, it is helpful to appreciate what Musk has disassembled and what he will likely try to reassemble once perils become clear and advertisers flee.

Over the years, Twitter invested significant resources into addressing online harms. This effort, however, began frustratingly slowly. In 2009, Twitter banned only spam, impersonation, and copyright violations. Then, the lone safety employee, Del Harvey, recruited one of us (Citron) to write a memo about threats, cyberstalking, and harms suffered by people under assault. Harvey wanted to tackle those harms, but the C-suite resisted in the name of being the “free speech wing of the free speech party.”

Twitter largely stuck to this script until 2014, when cyber mobs began shoving women off the platform in a campaign known as Gamergate. At that point advertisers decided they did not want their products appearing next to rape and death threats and nonconsensual pornography. Gadde built an impressive trust and safety team, tripling the number of people on it. Harvey, Sarah Hoyle, and John Starr designed policies banning cyberstalking, threats, hate speech, and nonconsensual pornography. On the product side, Michelle Haq put those policies into practice. Thousands of moderators were hired; product managers worked on making reporting processes more efficient and responsive.

That was just the beginning. In 2015, Gadde, Harvey, and Hoyle created a Trust and Safety Council, made up of global civil rights and civil liberties groups. (We have served on that council ever since on the behalf of the Cyber Civil Rights Initiative, where we serve on the Board and in leadership positions.) That same year, Jack Dorsey returned as CEO and made trust and safety a priority. This was especially evident after the 2016 election. In response to the disinformation and hate speech that plagued the platform during the election season, Dorsey and Gadde gathered a small kitchen cabinet (Citron, former New York Times editor Bill Keller, and Berkeley journalism school dean Tom Goldstein) to map a path forward to ensure that the platform would enhance public discourse rather than destroy it.

On Dec. 2, 2016, Dorsey—along with Gadde and Harvey—sat down with this group to talk about how Twitter should best tackle disinformation that was leading to the erosion of trust in democracies across the globe. The assembled did not have all the answers, but it was clear that the company was on high alert and would dedicate resources to dealing with destructive online behavior.

For the next two years, the council met to provide advice about new products and services. After Harvey and Hoyle moved on in 2018, Gadde brought Nick Pickles on board. That team tackled new problems, including deepfakes and other digitally manipulated imagery. They worked on the “Healthy Conversations” initiative that sought feedback on fostering civil dialogue. Gadde’s team updated hate speech policy to ban “dehumanizing speech.” (This, of course, is an abridged history of Twitter’s work on content moderation.)

Crucial to note is Twitter’s blind spot when it came to rule-breaking: public officials. Trump (and others) were given free range to spout hate speech, harassment, election lies, and health disinformation in violation of the company’s rules. Twitter and others stuck to the position that public officials “were different,” as opposed to our mantra that “with great power, comes greater—not less—responsibility.”

On Jan. 6, 2021, as a mob descended on the U.S. Capitol, many called for Trump’s long-overdue removal, after which Gadde convinced Dorsey, and Trump’s account was temporarily suspended.

On Feb. 6, 2021, we wrote together to make the case for Trump’s permanent ban from social media. In our view, “enough was enough”: Trump had used his social media presence to downplay and politicize the deadly pandemic; he also used it to incite a mob that left five dead, countless seriously injured, and the nation and world shaken. Better late than never, Twitter and other social media companies took away Trump’s online megaphone.

Now, Musk has invited him back, but the former president has suggested he isn’t interested. He has a new place to post where the rules are literally made for him: In February 2022, Trump set up Truth Social. With fewer than 2 million users, his reach is anemic, but that hasn’t stopped him from using it to spread conspiracy theories, election lies, hate, and antisemitic tropes.

Despite his protests, surely, Trump will be tempted to return to Twitter to reconnect with his 86 million followers. But the platform he may return to is very different from the one he left in February 2021, when we opposed his return. That would have been bad enough. Now, Trump will return to a platform with a decimated trust and safety team. What could possibly go wrong?

Since taking over, Musk has been bulldozing and backtracking on content moderation in real time. He adopted a verification scheme without any mooring to its original purpose: protecting against impersonation for those most likely to face it. Now, he is trying to fix that goof. He will soon discover that ripping down an entire edifice of trust and safety will lead to real harm for users and will scare away (more) advertisers. Unlike some of his earlier mistakes, however, he will also learn that it will not be easy to reconstruct an entire team that took more than a decade to build.

Musk likely adopts the interpretation that “Vox populi, vox Dei” implies that the people are always right, but one of the earliest references to this phrase comes in a letter from Alcuin to Charlemagne in 798: “And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness.”

With the guardrails removed, these words ring true.

From Fareed Zakaria's newsletter:

Quote:

Taking the Red Pill

Six years after online falsehoods first became the focus of national news and vigorous debate during the 2016 US presidential election, we still don’t have a great definition for this kind of misinformation, Carl Miller and Gavin Wilde write for the World Politics Review—but manipulation is the goal. “It is nothing less than the creation of synthetic ideational realities,” they write.

As Miller and Wilde note, we’ve learned more about how false notions and extreme attitudes percolate. Writing in the magazine Noema, disinformation expert Renée DiResta likens the effect to bird-flock behavior. As for how to respond to the phenomenon, DiResta writes, the policy debate has centered on content moderation, but it’s better to think more holistically about platform design.

In the most recent (summer) issue of the British politics-and-culture journal Soundings, Ben Little’s interview with three academics (republished by Eurozine) focuses on right-wing ideas, in particular: how they gather momentum online and what shapes they take.

“Online there are a lot of forces aligned in pushing forward what you might call an anti-equality politics,” remarks University of East Anglia political scientist Alan Finlayson. “There’s something about these digital spaces that intensifies and facilitates that kind of politics, because those who might advocate equality are not really using them. … (It’s as) if all the liberals, social democrats and socialists had said in the 1950s, ‘no, we won’t go on television, we’ll leave television to the conservatives and right-wingers’.” Referencing the right-wing, The Matrix-inspired trope of “taking the red pill” (as opposed to the blue), Finlayson continues: “That’s what’s taking the red pill is. The ‘revelation’ is that everyone’s not really equal, and that one is being screwed over not by exploitative employers but by the people ‘imposing’ equality, who need to be resisted. The problem is that the left doesn’t often engage in politics any more at the level of fundamental ideological orientations.”

Twitter. Lol.

Musk's handling of this is.....Trumpian.

I mean, wtf did he do during all of those weeks before the actual handover? No study/homework? I guess he is just so smart about everything, right?

I fucking love/hate this. (Look at all the assholes who are suddenly unbanned.)

So, this Special Counsel.....

Was it a brilliant chess move by Garland? Right after Trump announced? (Fuck, I love that aspect of it!)

I mean, won't this take more than 2 years? Will trump ever see justice in his lifetime?

I feel like Musk's Twitter is equivalent to Howard Stern back in the day, where people hated him, but they listened to see what he'd say/do next.

NOV 23, 03:10
Scotland needs go-ahead from London for independence vote, Supreme Court rules
Lukanyo Mnyanda in Edinburgh

The UK Supreme Court has ruled that the Scottish government does not have the legal authority to hold an independence referendum without agreement from Downing Street, scuppering a plan for a vote next year.

Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, in June told the parliament in Edinburgh that she wanted to hold a plebiscite in October 2023.

Lord Advocate Dorothy Bain, Scotland’s most senior legal officer, referred the draft bill to the Supreme Court because she did not have the “necessary degree of confidence” that the devolved parliament had the authority to legislate for a vote on a break-up of the UK.

Lord Robert Reed, the president of the Supreme Court, said on Wednesday that the proposed legislation relates to reserved matters and therefore the Scottish parliament does not have the power to legislate for a referendum.

The justices rejected the argument by the Lord Advocate that the fact that the proposed referendum would be “advisory” meant that it was not related to the union, which is reserved to the government in London.

Sir James Eadie KC, representing the UK government, had branded the argument as “strange” because the proposed plebiscite would not just be an opinion poll but part of a political strategy that sought the end of the union between Scotland and England.

Sturgeon previously said that she would use the next UK general election as a “de facto” referendum if the Supreme Court ruled she did not have the authority to hold an independence referendum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw2113

I feel like Musk's Twitter is equivalent to Howard Stern back in the day, where people hated him, but they listened to see what he'd say/do next.

Well, it's like Trump, innit? It's a car crash and you cannot help but look.

Musk recently shared some fake news. His response to CNN's "Be better" was "Lmaooooo".

This is the guy who owns twitter.

Every day I google "musk twitter" just to see if it has all crashed yet. Oh please!! Oh please!!

At the rate people in the U.S. are killing each other, soon we won't have to worry about anyone there being on Twitter. Or anywhere else. :(

DOJ: 1
Stupid Trumpy Judge who allowed Special Master: 0

The higher court basically bitch-slapped whateverthefuckhernameis for making shit up to allow the Special Master.

Jack Dorsey at least pretended to be impartial politically when he was the twitter boss. Musk seems to be incapable of doing such a thing. I'm not sure if that is worse than his complete incompetence regarding social media management in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuj

he's autistic, but too full of himself to admit his human limits and deputize. pure fucking hubris--cursed by the gods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

From Paste:

11 Social Media Alternatives To Elon Musk's Twitter

Like it or not, there’s still really no replacement for Twitter. At least not yet. But there are a number of established and upstart social media platforms available if Elon Musk's antics are pushing you to look for greener online pastures.

what a bit of a shit article. I like how they call Instagram and Tiktok "OG sites" when only Facebook existed before Twitter, and that's only by 2 years and when it wasn't public to everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw2113

what a bit of a shit article. I like how they call Instagram and Tiktok "OG sites" when only Facebook existed before Twitter, and that's only by 2 years and when it wasn't public to everyone.

Also why are they listing "right wing" sites when that's what theoretically twitter is going to become ? Just stick around and you'll allegedly get the same content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw2113

what a bit of a shit article. I like how they call Instagram and Tiktok "OG sites" when only Facebook existed before Twitter, and that's only by 2 years and when it wasn't public to everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw2113

Also why are they listing "right wing" sites when that's what theoretically twitter is going to become ? Just stick around and you'll allegedly get the same content.

I haven't even read it yet. I came across it at the same time Skuj and Symbols were discussing Twitter, and I figured, Eh, let's post a link. How Musky of me was THAT. :D

Jesus Christ Monkeyballs, did the civil war start already?